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Dr Andrea Robertson is an Osteopath, Naturopath, and Nutritionist. Georgie Beames is a Psychologist and Coach. The information shared in this podcast is for educational purposes only and does not constitute medical advice. Always consult your healthcare provider before making changes to your health regimen.

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Episode Transcript

Ep. 17 - Kim Morrison's Self-Love: How to Move Through Hard Times, Build Resilience, and Come Back to Yourself

[00:00:00] My dear, how can you possibly appreciate love without fear? How can you understand the highs in life without experiencing the lows? What does it mean to understand the darkness without having the light? We have to have these extremes. Human polarity is extreme. Negative and positive, batteries, life force, everything is a polarity and an extreme.

I invite you to dance in the middle and know that you always have the opportunity to get through tough times. And then with retrospect and introspect, look back and find the learnings so that we don't have to repeat them

Our sponsor today is Mineralyte, an Australian electrolytes brand. And I have to tell you how I found them because this is a genuine story. Now, I'm really into paddle tennis, some may say obsessed , and a friend of mine introduced me to Mineralyte to use for my hydration support during games. I was a little curious because I'd been recommending clients avoid those terrible sugary sports drinks for years, but I wasn't really sure what [00:01:00] other options were available.

I now know that Mineralyte is the option I'll recommend. It's unflavored and contains no sugar, no sweeteners, no artificial colors, no nasty additives. Just clean electrolyte support in drops you can add to your water or any hot or cold drink. And my paddle? It was noticeably different. My energy held, my focus held, and I even won some games.

Mineralyte is now in my water every single day. Go and check them out at mineralyte.com.au or find them in most pharmacies and health food stores throughout Australia and New Zealand

My guest today is the gorgeous, amazing, fabulous Kim Morrison, and I have been wanting this conversation for a very long time. Kim is a New Zealander, and now we have her in Australia. She's based on the Sunshine Coast, and her story starts in a place you would not expect for someone who teaches self-love.

In 1989, she became the youngest woman in the world to run 100 miles in under 24 hours. Her mentor was the famous [00:02:00] Cliff Young. She still holds eight Australian indoor records. Kim found aromatherapy almost by accident in 1987, working at a Melbourne gym that happened to sit next door to a natural therapies college.

And nearly 40 years later, it is still her life's work. She's trained in aromatherapy, remedial massage, reflexology, nutrition, counseling, NLP, and hypnotherapy. Kim founded 28 Essentials, her organic essential oil and chemical-free skincare company. She has written numerous bestselling books, including Like Chocolate for Women and The Art of Self-Love, and she hosts The Self-Love Podcast.

Here is why I asked her on. Kim has more self-discipline in her than almost anyone I have ever met, and she will tell you openly that she still had to build herself a six-step framework to help herself and her family find their way back to loving themselves.

I'm Dr. Andrea [00:03:00] Robertson, osteopath, naturopath, and nutritionist. Here we nourish because food is medicine, and what you eat changes everything. We heal because the body has an extraordinary capacity to self-repair when we remove what's blocking it, and we rise because feeling well isn't the destination.

It's the foundation for living the life you truly desire. This is Nourish, Heal, and Rise.

Before we begin, a quick and important note. Everything I share on this podcast is for educational purposes only. It's not personal medical advice, and it can't be, because in the context of this podcast, I don't know your health history, your medications, and what else is happening in your body. What I want this podcast to do is give you the knowledge to ask better questions, understand your body more deeply, and make more [00:04:00] informed decisions in partnerships with the practitioners who do know you.

If something resonates and you wanna take action, please work with a qualified healthcare provider who knows your full picture

Andrea: Kim, this is such an honor having you on my podcast. Like, I'm really touched because I've read your book recently about self-love, and you changed something for me, which I'm sure we'll talk about as we get into it. But also the fact that I've had the privilege of being in your world and being on your podcast, so it's really very special for me to, have you back in this way. And I wanted to launch straight in, and I wanted to get you to take me back to 1989 to the woman who ran 100 miles in under 24 hours, and what did that woman believe about herself at that point?

Kim: You beautiful girl, and it's a privilege for me to be here. We're going right in. Okay

Andrea: straight in.

Kim: Well, I was dared to run that race because I was looking after Cliff Young on the medical team as part [00:05:00] of my 200 community hours working with athletes in their environments. And so I tried to get it done as quick as possible by going to a 24-hour race.

Kim: And when I got assigned to Cliffy, and then in the middle of the night it was cold, it was kinda wet, it was miserable watching these 40 athletes run around a 400-meter track. I was so bored, so cold, and just couldn't stand it. And he said to me when he came into the pit stop tent where they get a bit of water or food or whatever and a bit of a rubdown, " What do you think of ultras, Kimmy?"

Kim: And I said, I was just honest. I was 19, 20 at the time, and I said, "They're stupid. The most boring, ridiculous thing I've ever seen human beings do." And he goes, "Oh, that's, that's interesting." He goes, "Well, why don't you run one?" And I said, "Well, I'd rather run one than watch one." And he goes, "Well, do that." And so I literally walked over to the lap scoring tent and said, "When's the next ultra?"

Kim: And that's when they said it was in three weeks' time, and that was a 12-hour race. And so I thought, I signed up. And I turned up to that [00:06:00] 12-hour race, and I didn't really know what I was doing. I'd been for a few 10K runs but didn't really know what I was doing. And luckily I had a few runners and people that had been in this world around me, and it was basically, you know, one foot in front of the other, just keep going.

Kim: And then Cliffy came up to me, and he just sort of ... He was in that race as well, and he just tapped his head and his heart, and he just sort of said, "You know, it is 90% mental and 10% physical." And I said, "Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I, I got this." Well, about four hours into the race I remember thinking, "What the hell am I doing?"

Kim: That's when I met that voice in my head that went, "This is stupid. Why would you wanna do this? This is ridiculous. Sit down. Quit. How ridiculous ... You still got another eight hours to go. Nobody does this." And I went into the pit stop tent and I literally said to my team, "I'm done. I can't do this." And Cliffy saw me in the tent and just tapped his head.

Kim: And I thought, "Oh." Anyway, so I got back out on the track. I was sore, limping a little bit, you know. And then [00:07:00] my coach sort of, he became my coach, but he sorta said, "You know, you just don't want DNF next to your name, did not finish. So just no matter what, doesn't matter where you come, just don't give up."

Kim: And I thought, "Yeah, you're right," 'cause I am competitive. So I kept going, and that's another story in itself, but at the end of that 12 hours they drop a sandbag when the gong goes off and then they measure that last lap. And when they announced I'd run, I won that by running 95.4Ks, I limped up to get my trophy.

Kim: And then they gave me the trophy and said, "And because you've won this race you've won a place to represent Victoria in the 24-hour championships." Now, I nearly burst into tears, but everyone was clapping and cheering, and I just thought, "I'm gonna have to do this all over again twice as long." So I was an accidental- ultra-marathon runner.

Kim: But I did a bit more training, and then started using my oils, and that was in the world where Tony Robbins was just starting to come into fore, into the world. And I just started realizing mindset was quite important. And yeah, there I was lined up [00:08:00] in 1999 on the start line again. And that's when Cliffy said to me, "Not only is it 90% mental, 10% physical," but he looked at me and he goes, "Also just remember, one foot in front of the other.

Kim: Don't give up. Stay on the track as much as you can." And then he gave me this line, and he said... And it was a Sri Chinmoy quote, but it was, "The race is not always to the swift, but to those that keep on running." And I just kept saying that, and it became my mantra. I don't have to be the fastest. 'Cause I'm so competitive I wanted to win it, but a 24-hour race is not about going out fast.

Kim: And yeah, I ended up, There's another whole story in that, but quit that race four times. You know, just so many things just made me wanna just quit, 'cause it hurt. And then in the last two hours of the race, I remember my beautiful aromatherapy teachers arriving. They had made me a blend before I went out there, and I kept using it.

Kim: And she came in and she goes, " You know, how bad do you want it? You've got this." And, and it was this [00:09:00] beautiful, I guess, positive anchoring into my mind with the smell. And so I just kept snorting on this aromatic tissue. And, and then beautiful, Melissa, the lady that had been doing all my lap stuff said, " The Victorian champion," who was 42 at the time, "Sandra Kirsch is on your tail."

Kim: And then my coach yelled out, "How bad do you want it?" And I just lifted. I found something in me. I don't know where it came from, but that was another self-journey afterwards. But I ran the last two hours of that race quicker than I ran the first two hours. And yeah, they said that I'd won. And then when they gave me that trophy, they said I'd set a world record for being the youngest female to run 100 miles in less than 24 hours.

Kim: So I ran 168.5 k's. And, and because of that, I won a place to represent Australia at the World Indoor 24 Hour Championships in London. Now, it's interesting, 'cause at 15, all I wanted to do was play netball for New Zealand. If you'd said to me back then that I was gonna be a, a world record holder, run [00:10:00] for Australia in the UK, and set eight Australian indoor records, I would never, ever had pictured that.

Kim: So yeah, it was a pretty big, amazing thing. But I really... I remember another thing Cliffy said, "You're about to meet the real you." And I didn't know what that was until I saw the poor me in there throwing tantrums because someone gave me cold pumpkin soup instead of tea. And just all these things, our behaviors and what we do.

Kim: Oh my God, there's nothing like pushing yourself physically to find the real emotional you.

Andrea: I bet. And so Kim, what did you learn from , those experiences and running all those miles that you've been able to take into what you do with the work that you help your clients with?

Kim: I think we're stronger than we ever think we are. We've got more in us than we could ever imagine. You know, I always used to say from that experience, when you think you're done, you're actually only 80% there. And then a few years ago, I got totally invested in following David Goggins, and went and heard him speak in [00:11:00] Brisbane.

Kim: And he turned around and he ma- he said this line: "When you think you're done, you're not. You're only at 40%." And that completely re... I don't know what the word is, but recalibrated my mindset into thinking, "Yeah, hang on. You think you're done." You only have to look at a mother lift a car off a child or watch someone run through fire to save someone they love or to see the strength of a man or a woman when they're confronted with a life-threatening situation to know that there's way more in each of us than we ever thought possible.

Kim: So that was probably the biggest thing I took away from ultramarathon running. And so when I'm writing books or when I'm teaching on stage or when I'm making mistakes or when I was giving birth... I remember one of my girlfriends who was at my birth, the birth of my first child. Actually, she was at both, but she leans into me when I was going, I was going, "I can't do it anymore.

Kim: I can't do it." And she goes, "What would you rather? Would you rather be running a 24-hour race [00:12:00] or giving birth?" And I looked at her and went, "I'd rather run a 24-hour race." But whenever I've been doing running, I go, "I'd rather give birth." So

Andrea: They're both as painful as each other

Kim: Uh, but it's pretty extraordinary, the human spirit. And as we're recording this is after the Nepalese massive flash flood, that I'm watching the human spirit just come to the fore again of humans saving humans and humans doing more than they ever thought possible.

Kim: And it breaks your heart, but I'd say these things break you open as well

Andrea: Yeah, 100%, darling. It's, yeah, disaster in the world brings people together in a way, and I think that's something that you said in your book too. Whenever there's, good times, there's always hard times, isn't there? And you see the best in both, or you have to find the best in both. And I, I, I know you know my story.

Andrea: I've told it a few times, I think, with your groups, but I've had some really tough, challenging health times and a, a tough [00:13:00] business time as well, and I always think that can't see it in the moment, but when you get out of the moment, you can look back and go, "Okay, n- now I know what good came out of that." And I think that's the same for everyone, 'cause everyone's got hard stuff happening. Could you talk a little bit more, more about that, how you talk about that, um, that difference between the good and the bad times?

Kim: Well, you know, when I speak on stage, I'll genuinely get to a point where I'll ask the audience, you know, "Who is genuinely going through a tough time right now?" And you'll see the numbers are rising, to be honest. It used to be a couple of hands, now it's probably... Then it went to 20%, now it's probably around 30, 33% of the room will put their hand up, which I found fascinating over three decades.

Kim: And I've got a theory behind that. But I just, I, I then look at them and I go, "Look, I've got some words of wisdom for you. It may not feel right, but I just want you to let it land on your heart. And those words are four words: this too shall pass."

Andrea: Mm-hmm.[00:14:00] 

Kim: And then everyone just sits there and I go, "I promise you, and you may even look back on this time in your life when you will get through it, and you will just by putting one foot in front of the other, staying on the track."

Kim: My analogies for my ultramarathon days are there. Just keep going. Don't have to be the fastest, just don't give up and keep participating as best you can. And then I say, "And you will, and you will look back on this time and realize it was a pivotal moment that has taken you to the next level of the evolution of your beautiful pathway.

Kim: You don't have to know the answers. You don't have to see it, but just trust me, you will get there." And then I go quiet and everyone looks and they all seem quite introspective and, mm. And then I go, "And now may I ask genuinely in the who- in the room, who's going through a pretty good time, or who feels like they're in a good space in their life?"

Kim: And usually another 30 to 40% will put their hand up. Some people just don't participate, but that's okay. But then I look at them and I go, "Hmm, well, I've got four beautiful words [00:15:00] specifically for you as well." And everyone looks at me and I go, "This too shall pass."

Andrea: I knew you were gonna say that.

Kim: And everyone just goes, "Oh." And I go, "Because we all know the highs never stay high, the lows never stay low.

Kim: And of course, if we're looking at equilibrium or, if we all stayed at that point, you know, of calibration, then life would be boring." So, life is full of dichotomies, extremes, highs, lows, positive, negatives. And it was when I was in India and we spent seven days at the Sherab Ling Palpung Monastery, and we had seven days of teachings with His Holiness the 12th Kenting Tai Situpa, who turned around to us and we were offered...

Kim: There was 400 and odd people in the room, and somehow I was chosen to have a one-on-one with him. And I never took that for granted, but I was invited to come to him with a couple of questions, and I thought, "Have I got questions for you." And I got to go into the room and I took with him the book that I'd written at the time, Like Chocolate For Women, and, um, [00:16:00] it had been published in India by Hay House, and it was called The Busy Woman's Guide To Self-Care.

Kim: So I took both of them into him and he said, "What, what is it, child? You know, nice to meet you and, and what, what question do you have?" And I went, "Yes, I have a very big question for you." And he looked at me and- And I said, "Why do humans have to go through such tough times? Why does everybody seem to be met with some sort of struggle or, or time where they feel they're plastered on their floor, or that they're in the fetal position and can't breathe, and why?"

Kim: And he looked at me and he goes, "Ha ha ha." He was the cutest thing. He was like a little round Buddha. "He he he," he goes. "Look, very human question." And he goes, "My dear, how can you possibly appreciate love without fear? How can you understand the highs in life without experiencing the lows? What does it mean to understand the darkness without having the light?

Kim: We have to have these extremes. Human polarity is extreme. Negative and [00:17:00] positive, batteries, life force, everything is a polarity and an extreme. I invite you to dance in the middle and know that you always have the opportunity to get through tough times, and then with retrospect and introspect, look back and find the learnings so that we don't have to repeat them."

Kim: I've never forgotten those words, and I've never f- I've never forgotten his essence and his energy. And sometimes we have to, you know, isolate ourselves, take ourselves away from the norm to elevate ourselves, and I've always looked at my retreats as a form of isolation to create the elevation. So I just think sometimes we, we think it's not fair.

Kim: I've had people say to me, you know, "Why is this happening to me?" And then I have other people say, "Well, why not you?" And then some of my teachers have said, you know, "Instead of saying why is this happening to me, you could ask why is this happening for me?" And I used to dance in that place. What is the learnings?

Kim: [00:18:00] What am I... Why is this happening for me? Which is a different mindset. And then I had another teacher turn around and go, "Well, rather than why to me and why for me, but why is this happening through me?" Which was another level of... I don't know if I put that in the book. But it was another level of elevation again, because now I'm the conduit.

Kim: I'm the, the, the human experience for this experience to happen through me, which then took me to another level of it's happening through me, what am I doing with it, and how can I be the example for those who I love? So I... And, and I'm sure there's another level again, darling, but I haven't got there yet.

Andrea: I I've definitely thought about that why is this happening for me piece before when I've been in hard times. I don't think I've got to the why is it happening through me yet. So I'm a step behind you.

Kim: It's big. It's big

Andrea: yeah, beautiful, beautiful learnings. So you said you had a 30 perc- a theory about why 30% put their hand up, Kim, when they said they'd had tough times, and you've seen that [00:19:00] increase.

Andrea: Why, what's your thoughts around why more people are putting their hands up?

Kim: I think we're feeling safer to own it. Uh, if I only go back one generation or even two generations, you know, my grandparents were war. My grandparents came through the war. My grandfather died from gra- from war wounds. So we're only two generations away,

Kim: uh, know, ahead of those, the war babies and/or the baby boomers.

Kim: And in their day, and even my mother's day, to have support to own or to share your problems or to get coaching, I guess in those days it was seeing a therapist,

Andrea: Yeah

Kim: s- it was seen as a sign of weakness. And so my theory is, is that it's not that we are going through more hard times, it's just that we're being more open and owning it and feeling safer to share it.

Kim: And I hope in my workshops and my retreats that I give people that level where their neurological system feels safe enough to own it. [00:20:00] And I think that's one of the biggest things is when we're in what I call the mosh pit of life or the struggles and challenges of life, that we can actually say, "Yeah, life sucks right now," and it's okay 'cause not, n- none of us go to our grave without it.

Kim: I, I do believe some of us go through it maybe if you wanna, I don't know, judge it. Some people seem to have more hard times or worse things. But, you know, after doing the Landmark Forum in my 20s, which was

Andrea: did that in my 20s too.

Kim: Oh. Yeah, well, I remember sitting there and remembering, you know, people sharing their stories. This t- that was a big eye-opener for me.

Kim: But, um, I remember hearing a lady put her hand up and, and she shared, you know, why life was so hard as she'd gone out on w- a very first date. And with respect, and I, you know, sincerely hope, you know, if, if this triggers anybody that you, you s- seek support. But [00:21:00] she said she'd gone out for a date and ended up being gang raped.

Kim: And I, I just sat there just listening to her and felt the tears roll down my cheeks. I couldn't imagine anything worse than that. And then a gentleman stood up and he shared, not consecutively, but throughout the process, and he shared that his father had never told him he loved him, and he was a blubbering mess, if not just as much as that woman.

Kim: And it was that moment that I realized our traumas, our wounds, our experiences, who am I to judge what's worse than another? It's, it's an individual journey. It's an individual experience. It's what we do with those experiences that I guess is the invitation. And, uh, again, you know, I, I, I don't judge either of those.

Kim: Um, I know internally I had a voice saying I think hers was worse, um, only because I've [00:22:00] experienced sexual abuse myself, and I had this judgment. But then some of my clients, you know, their lives have been a mess, and they've ended up on drugs, or they've ended up, um, self-sabotaging so badly their relationships all because they didn't get the love from their parents they felt they deserved,

Kim: so... Or our parents. So I, I just, I've learnt not to judge it anymore, Andrea, and I think you and I are very much, uh, on the same page with that. Everybody's journey is unique

Andrea: Yeah. It was amazing, that Landmark Forum. I definitely, I did that in my early 30s, and I remember that day, like, um, if anyone knows about this, it's sort of like a group psychology co- coaching kind of thing, and I didn't know what I was walking into. A friend had recommended it to me, and off I went. And just sitting in this room in Adelaide, there was probably... Oh, I can't remember. But it's just, like, rows and rows of people, maybe 200 people there. And everyone over the course of the four days had to tell their story, and w- well, didn't have to, but were invited up to tell [00:23:00] their story, and always remember sitting there going, "My life's been really good. Like, I haven't had anything bad happen to me. am I gonna say when it's my turn?" I felt really bad because, um, I was like, gosh, these people have been through so many hard things, and just to see the transformation that happened to them over that time. And do you remember from the Landmark Forum how they, um, helped us work out what our strong suits are?

Kim: Yes

Andrea: um... And so I can't remember. You might be able to remind me of the middle one, 'cause I, when I tell this story, I can't remember all the details. But there was... They said there's something that happens to us at different points in our life that gives us a, a characteristic of our personality, and we have three strong suits: something that happens when we're seven, something that happens when we're a teenager, and something happens in our early 20s. And for me, when I was, uh, seven, my nan had a heart attack, and my mum and I did CPR on her together, and she didn't survive. So that's pretty big for a seven-year-old to do. [00:24:00] And I remember Mum was doing the CPR, and I was on the phone to the nurse having to report what to do. and then I realized that, well, that's why I care for everyone.

Andrea: Like, you know, that's my strong suit. I'm really caring, and I love looking after people, and probably my seven-year-old said, "If I can't save Nan, I'll just save everybody else." And then when I was a teenager, I was bullied for, um, being... I was very thin as a dancer, like little professional dancer, and that was my natural body type, and I ate a huge amount of food, but I got-- And I never went to the parties and kissed the boys 'cause I was always dancing, so I used to get teased at school for being an anorexic lesbian.

Kim: All right.

Andrea: I

Kim: Gosh, kids can be so cruel.

Andrea: cruel. But then I think that made me strong. So that was my, you know, I'm very caring and very strong, and I can't remember what happened in my early 20s or what I came up with there. But something else that really stuck with me from that Landmark forum was they said to us that if you, us human beings, at any time we're being one of our strong suits [00:25:00] or running a racket, they said, which means complaining about stuff. And I remember going before this, I used to always go, "Oh, I'm so tired." say, "How are you?" "I'm so tired." And then I realized I'm making myself tired by saying I'm so tired all the time, and I'm complaining. Like, I'm complaining all the time about how tired I am. And that weekend, I stopped saying I'm tired, and I don't, don't think I've ever been tired since.

Kim: Amazing, right?

Andrea: were your strong suits, Kim, from that? Do you remember?

Kim: I remember strength, um, you know, having survived, um Well, actually the first one was forgiveness. Um, and I don't know if that was a strength, but I just do remember thinking that I'm very good at forgiving people, and I'm very good at allowing people to be themselves. And so I remember thinking I'm very forgiving.

Kim: I'm also very caring. Um, you know, at 16 I hurt my back really badly playing netball, and I was flat on my back watching... It was timed perfectly to watch the LA [00:26:00] Olympics. Um, so I spent two weeks flat on my back watching the Olympics, so I loved that. And I remember thinking, I love caring for people and seeing people get their best or be their best or drive no matter what, and their backstories were phenomenal even back then.

Kim: And then, um, you know, in my 20s when I decided to leave, um, New Zealand and then stay and go on my big OE, but I got to Melbourne. And I remember thinking, I, I really believe, I, I have a really strong suit of belief in everybody being their best. And I believed in love even though I'd met my husband-to-be, but I knew he didn't know I was the one, even though I told everyone I was gonna have his babies.

Kim: It took him four years before he realized I was the one. But I, I was patient, and I was very kind, and I knew he had another girlfriend, and I was just like, "Oh, I hope she's doing well," whenever I'd write him letters. And, and, and so I was so nice in my letters that I knew that even if she read them, [00:27:00] which apparently she did, um, and ripped them up he would always think, "But she was so nice.

Kim: Why would you do that?" And I knew that being nice was also a manipulative strength as well. Um, and so I really have called myself on all of my behaviors. But then years later when I heard Dr. Wayne Dyer speak, he said another thing which was, you know, you sometimes wanna ask why you're here or what is your greatest gifts or the greatest thing that you could bestow on others.

Kim: And he goes, "I really grappled with this for a long time." And then he said, "You know, I grew up with an alcoholic mother and father, a very abusive upbringing. My brothers and I were, you know, put from pillar to post in different adoption..." What do you call them? Places... Foster homes. Thank you.

Kim: Sorry. And he said, "And I realized that one of my greatest strengths was, or one of the greatest things that I learnt was how to be formidable and also resilient." And he said, "Of course me being put into all these different homes created an element of formidability and [00:28:00] resilience." And I sat there that day he said that and I thought, "Yeah, actually forgiveness came up again."

Kim: And then as I've gotten... 'Cause a lot of people that I've really trusted or believed in have somehow, it's felt like they've, they've hurt me or, or betrayed that trust, but I still believe in love, and I still believe in the greater spirit of humanity. And I thought maybe it's perspective. Maybe it's I've learnt the art of how to look at it from different ways.

Kim: And then that took me down the realm- the pathway of understanding the mind more, which is what introduced me to neuro-linguistics programming in my mid-20s. And then I loved hypnotherapy, and I loved conscious thought and what it meant. And then of course, when the What the Bleep! came out, I was one of the first people...

Kim: I love that film all about the quantum realm and quantum physics. And even though I threw a racket, my racket was always I'm not good enough because I don't have a degree. So that was a racket I told for years, um, or a, you know, a complaint. And then I realized, [00:29:00] actually, you know, someone said to me, " Kim, you've got a PhD in you."

Andrea: Yes.

Kim: I thought,

Andrea: life

Kim: "Wow, wow, I've got a P- I'm a doctor of me." And not all doctors, you would know, have all the answers, but they're inquiring. They're- they're curious. They wanna know more. They love to learn. They love to support and help and try things, and be adaptable and flexible. And the best doctors are the ones, in my opinion, that constantly learn and constantly want to know more.

Kim: So I thought, "Yeah, I am a doctor of, of that." So I just, I just feel that those courses and programs, and not every course or program or podcast or TED Talk or book is gonna teach you everything, but they're all what I call the dots, the- the crumbs that lead you on a beautiful pathway of self-discovery. And the best job we have on this planet, in my humble opinion, is to know thyself, and that's to truly embrace who we are, [00:30:00] warts and all.

Kim: And we all have different vehicles in which we do that. Yours at first was through dance, and I'm so committed to your story because it was so similar to my daughter's story, and being a dance mum, so one level removed from that. Even though I did ballet to 15, I was never as good as you girls. And I lost interest 'cause netball took over and then running took over.

Kim: So, you know, we, we have these pathways, these crumbs, and we all seem to want to analyze them and com- compartmentalize them and have the answers. And I guess for me, back to your original question, why is there 33% in the room putting their hand up is 'cause I think we're getting more curious and more safe with being vulnerable and open to learning.

Kim: Why do people come to listen to these podcasts? Why do we want to share our stories? Well, I think that's the beauty of humanity is when we allow ourselves, we meet each other on the same level, and it's through our pains and our sacrifices and our calamities and our traumas that we really do meet at a heart or [00:31:00] soul level, not through the joys, not through the wins.

Kim: It's actually the other way around, which is what's made me or helped me come to embrace them and bring them with me rather than leave them behind. They're all a part of us. That's what I believe

Andrea: Yeah, beautiful. Kim, your book on self-love, could you get a little bit into the, not the theory, but you know, a bit more about what self-love is? Could you define self-love for me in the way that you would define it to a woman who thinks it's a little bit indulgent?

Kim: Yeah. Well, I guess we used to look at self-love as being... If you go back to school, those, those bullying years, those lovely, lovely

Andrea: Yeah

Kim: and we're probably all guilty of it ourselves. I'm sure I said things I shouldn't have,

Andrea: Ja

Kim: um, and didn't have the emotional regulation or ability to call myself on it, so I own that as well.

Kim: Um, I don't think I was a bully as such, but I certainly was bossy. I'm not sure if that's the right [00:32:00] thing.

Andrea: I think I'm still bossy.

Kim: I still am too. Um, but I guess it really opened up that whole realm of, you know, when I look back then, if you loved yourself, you were arrogant, you were up yourself, you know? "Oh, she loves herself."

Kim: And so it was almost... I, I, I don't know if that's a generalization or whether that's everybody experienced that, but it felt like, "Ooh, don't love yourself." But as I got older, I started to realize that there's a fine line between confidence and arrogance. And I feel like after listening to so much work with Wayne Dyer, that when we step into arrogance, it's the ego, in his words, edging God out.

Kim: And we, we stand in confidence, it's honoring and allowing God in, whatever your version of God is. And so I really loved that. I don't know if it's right or wrong, but I just... It felt, felt right to me. And for some reason, like, people ask me, how did I get into this or why? I was always curious as to why people didn't love themselves.

Andrea: Yeah [00:33:00] 

Kim: and I, and I have what in my work is called a strategy. And I didn't realize it was a strategy till I studied NLP But, you know, someone would say, um, "Oh, here's an opportunity to be the captain of the school netball team." And I'd say, "I'd be good at that." I, I just knew I'd be good at that. Or, you know, write a speech even though I didn't want to speak in front of people, I knew I'd be good at it.

Kim: And then I'd always say that, and I'd go, "Oh, yeah, I'd be good at that." And I never said it arrogantly, but I just knew if I practiced or I did things, I'd be good at that. And as I got older and, and watched myself, you know, it was cliffy. Yeah, I'd be good at that. I'd be good at running. I've, I've done netball to state level.

Kim: I'd be good at... Why couldn't I run? Um, or when I was learning aromatherapy because I loved the power of a scent and smell and the anchoring of that and NLP intertwined with it, I was like, "Yeah, I'd be good at that. I'd be good at teaching that." And then my girlfriend and I or, you know, friends would go and look at homes, you know, to buy, and I'd be like, "Why did they style it like this?

Kim: I'd be good at that." [00:34:00] Or my girlfriend and I go, "We could be great together. I'd be good at selling real estate. You'd be great at sty..." You know, everywhere I go, I go, "I'd be good at that." Like, I know I would have been a great chiropractor if I'd been introduced to it early enough. I know I'd be a great pilot.

Kim: I know I would have been a great surgeon if I'd studied that, and I still believe that. But it's just, I'm just... What I, I think the strategy was I'd be good at it when I'd learnt enough about it, and I didn't. I'm humble enough to know when I don't know what I can learn to become knowing. And then even now, though, I sit in this place at nearly 60 years of age, and I go, "I actually feel the more I learn, the more I don't know."

Kim: And so

Andrea: I'm the same.

Kim: and when I interview women like you, and I hear your science knowledge and your ability to recall information or research, I'm like, "I'd be good at that if I spent more time looking at the research." But I'm too busy creating oils or blends or workshops, so

Andrea: We've all got our own path, haven't we, Kim? And we're all, I mean, we're all [00:35:00] so good at what we love and

Kim: Exactly

Andrea: find our way, and we can't all be good at everything, even though I sometimes think I can be good at a lot of things.

Kim: I just think it's a great strategy when someone said, "That's an amazing strategy. How did you get that strategy?" I don't know. I've never not believed in myself. I've never not... No matter what's happened to me, I've always known I will pick myself up. And so, you know, I guess where it really hit me between the eyes- Is, and when it's really hits you in your own life, is when my husband's sister tragically took her life in 2005.

Kim: And I watched my husband go down a path of self-sabotage and, and, you know, he, he was a top cricketer. He was, he was... He played cricket for New Zealand for 10 years. He was a professional athlete. He, he knew what to do as an athlete. He had stepping stones, training days, rest days, um, hypnotherapy days. Uh, he would do all the things to [00:36:00] make him an amazing cricketer.

Kim: And but no one prepares us for an emotional rupture. And it's, you know, we're not even really taught it at school. We're not taught how to be in a relationship, or how to know thyself, or how to truly embrace our weaknesses and constraints as much as we can look to and build on our wonderful strengths and qualities.

Kim: And so when that happened and then I watched my husband go into this, this whirlpool of self-deprecation and self-loathing, I remember thinking, "We, we need to get out of this. We, we need to find a way." And even though we were having counseling and therapy and all sorts of things, I remember one day just saying to him, "Do you wanna go and live on the Sunshine Coast for a year or two?"

Kim: And it's because we'd visited here and we loved it here. It was sunny, it was warm, there was a lot of positive energy. And he went, "Hell yes, when?" And it was moving here that I thought would be the answer. And then what happened, of [00:37:00] course, we were here and we were even more alone, as in no family, no one else around us.

Kim: But I felt like our little unit of four would get us through. And but he didn't, and he didn't talk to me. And I guess being a top athlete, you don't share all your weaknesses because you don't want the opposition to know those weaknesses. And so again, another fine line, isn't there? And, and to the point where he did crumple in a heap with alcohol and drugs and partying.

Kim: And even though he was a commentator now and he was living this incredible life of his dream, it was also, what I found out later, was also his prison cell. And so I think for me, what happened was I also had my antennae up because a psychologist had said to me when we lost his sister, "You know, you're gonna have to be really mindful here."

Kim: These were his words. Uh, when there's a suicide, and again, if I've triggered people, please make sure you reach out. But you know, if there's a suicide in the family, then often it gives everyone else in the family permission to do the same. [00:38:00] Now, I don't know if that's a truth. I don't know if that's real.

Kim: But I took it on in my heart to wanna make sure my family never experienced this again. So was that an, a load or was that something I took on, uh, you know, unconsciously? Potentially, yes. Um, but I also didn't know that my husband would be that person.

Andrea: Yeah

Kim: he, you know, I also thought because he was living what looked like an incredible life, traveling business class, staying in five-star hotels, and talking about a game that he loved,

Andrea: Yeah

Kim: most people look at that and go, "Oh, suck it up, princess.

Kim: What a job." I'd- they'd give anything for that to get away from the wife, the kids, the everyday life, the- the mortgage, the payments, the nine-to-five job, or the whatever. And but you don't know other people's stories and, and prison cells, 'cause he told our therapist every time he put his key in that door, it felt like he was being put back into his own prison cell again, 'cause he was so alone.

Kim: And so my antenna was up, of course, for [00:39:00] everybody, but I think he felt he didn't wanna put a load on me, so he didn't tell me these things. So every time he came home, he felt like he came home to the Morrison boot camp, 'cause I'm so into health and wellbeing. I had an aspiring rugby player and aspiring ballerina, so I was learning everything I could around nutrition and mindset and health and wellness, and all the things I'd learnt from watching my husband being an international athlete, me being a runner for Australia.

Kim: I just knew there were pathways and, and protocols, and I loved the steppingstones. And so, um, you know, he'd come home and I'd have green smoothies, and we'd have, you know, organic whole food, and I'd be baking bread, and I'd be making all my meals, and all these things. Um, and the poor g- And I didn't, I wasn't skilled or trained psychologically to know when someone was hiding these things or...

Kim: I just knew he wasn't right. What I did pick up on, which you'll find interesting, and I don't know if I shared this in the book, I can't remember, but I noticed his smell. He smelt different [00:40:00] to me

Andrea: Well

Kim: being an aromatherapist, smell, I can smell many things. And it was after interviewing a blind person how they said they could smell fear.

Kim: I could smell anxiety. I could smell tension and, and I didn't know what it was, but I didn't like it. And I even said to my girlfriend, "I'm not sure I'm gonna stay married to Danny. It's just, it's ick. There's yuck. There's something. I don't like his smell." That's all I could say. I had no idea that he was drinking and taking drugs, and he allows me to share this story, and partying and doing all these things.

Kim: He was trying to take his life, uh, in his words. Um, he didn't wanna be here anymore. He couldn't save his sister. We'd also gone through a massive avalanche of losing all our money that we'd put into one investment that we lost three months later. So everything he had worked for was gone. His family was ruptured.

Kim: He, he, he didn't know what his career path was anymore because we didn't know. Thank God [00:41:00] 10- T20 came along and he created a pathway. I so admire him for it. But he didn't know where it was... He lived every day on edge not knowing where the next dollar was coming from. So you can understand, not as a wife, not as a family member, but as a, you know, an outsider looking in, looking at another human, you can hear the anguish, the pain, the suffering.

Kim: Um, and so my antennae was up and I could see my, my s- my greatest job was to make sure my children got through this. Um, and we'd stayed on the Sunshine Coast. You know, now we're at, now we're now, we're about six, seven years into staying here. We loved it so much, and Danny's career was taking off a little bit more.

Kim: But- I remember watching-- My daughter was pretty good. She was focused on dancing. My biggest thing was an eating disorder. I was-- I didn't, I didn't think she had one. She just didn't wanna eat. She wasn't motivated by food. She was motivated by dancing. And so I wouldn't say she had an eating disorder, she just didn't eat.

Kim: [00:42:00] Um, but she was very slim and very thin. And, uh, my son, though, he was the cocky one. He was the brash one, the, the one that would speak his mind and-- But I realized, too, that was a, a bit of a front, 'cause he was getting a bit bullied at school, and I'm sure also giving as much as he gave in different ways.

Kim: But he was the one I was a bit concerned of. And so for about three years, I kept trying to tap into his heart and get him to talk. And I'm sure those of us listening to this that have got teenage boys, good luck with that a lot of the time. Um, anyway, he did-- Danny was home, and he came home. Uh, no, he'd been-- And I'd been watching him, and he would lash out and he would cry and he would be very angry.

Kim: And I'd say, "What's wrong?" "Nothing." And, and shut me out, you know. And that broke my heart 'cause I felt like I was so emotionally aware and so vulnerable and open and, nope, couldn't get through to him. And I just kept thinking, you know, don't walk in front of them and [00:43:00] pull them. Don't walk behind them and kick them and push them.

Kim: Just walk beside them. You've never been a 45-year-old mother of a 16 and a 15-year-old. They've never been a 15-year-old boy and a 16-year-old girl with a 45-year-old potentially perimenopausal mother with a father away a lot. So, you know, at the end of the day, if we can all just give ourselves a bit of kudos, we've never been here before.

Kim: And every moment of every day, like, why do we have such a high expectation on what we should or shouldn't be doing? And so that gave me a little bit of grace. But I just thought patience. So instead of burying my head in the sand, I started Um, listening to every TED Talk that appealed to me around either suicide or mental health or personal growth or...

Kim: And I probably got very attached to, um, you know, Gaia, that beautiful online, beautiful way of watching movies and listening to people doing personal growth work, and got very atta- attached to Hay House and all of the amazing speakers. Went to [00:44:00] many different talks. And I'm a note-taker. If you ever see me listening to someone talking, I will be taking notes, whether it's on my phone or I'm writing it, 'cause it lands for me when I write it.

Kim: And for three years, I transcribed Tony Robbins, Deepak Chopra, Marianne Williamson, Louise Hay, um, you know, Gabby Bernstein. Like, just every person I could get my hands on, I just... And I, and I've got this massive booklet, um, A3 booklet that is just words and words and words. And I kept thinking, "There has to be a pathway.

Kim: Why are they all so successful when they've had big things happen to them?" And I just needed a pathway. And I came up with those six steps, and I was thinking, "Yeah, you've got to go through these steps to get there." And it was Jacob would've been coming up 16, and he just came into my room at 9:00 at night.

Kim: Dan and I were lying in bed and He walked in and he just goes, "Mum." And I just thought, "Oh." And he goes, "I don't [00:45:00] wanna be here anymore. I hate my life." And I just looked at him and I thought, "Oh." And I just wanted to fix and smother and hold and hug and tell him everything was gonna be okay. Who am I to say that?

Kim: I don't know if everything's okay. Losing Danny's sister the way we did made me realize, no, everything's not gonna always be okay.

Andrea: Nein

Kim: I then sat him down, and Taylor had come into the room because she heard him sobbing. He just finally let go, and I just held him like my little baby. And Danny's got his hand on mine, and I'm just looking at my four- us four little humans on this bed at 9:00 at night going, "What the frick is this all about?"

Kim: And so I just looked at Jacob, and for the first time in my life I just said to him, "I haven't got the answer." I kept thinking I had to have the answers. "Darling, I haven't got the answer. I don't know. I don't know what to do next. I guess there's one thing I could show you if you wanted me to, because I've been trying to [00:46:00] work out a way on how we find our way through these hard times, and I could share that with you if you wanted."

Kim: And he went, "Yep." And so I drew this big love heart in the middle of one of those pages, and I wrote the word self-love. And I said, "What do you think the opposite of self-love is?" And he goes, "Hate." And I went, "Well, actually, in listening to all these amazing speakers, I think hate is a part of it, but I think there's a word bigger than that, and I actually think it's fear."

Kim: So then I drew this arrow coming out of the heart down to the bottom left of the page and I wrote in big words fear. And I said, "Now, everybody, let's, let's brainstorm this. What sits under that?" And that's when Jake goes, "Hate." And, you know, I said, "Yeah." And then Danny, of course, with what he's been through, went, you know, "Self-loathing, self-pity, blame."

Kim: We're all saying denial, shame, remorse, grief, loss, resentment. It's all those things that are anything but love. And they... Anger. They all play a part. They're not [00:47:00] wrong. They're not bad. They're just... They're an emotion that we humans feel or a, a space or a place that we feel in when anything but love is occurring.

Kim: And so I said to him, "I want us to frame this." And, you know, I kept thinking back to His Holiness. You can't have one without the other. And so this was my poli- polarity, my, my negative and positive, the, the dichotomy, the extremes. And I said to him, "But if we want a pathway back, then I too do believe the first step back" and I wrote it up in the top right-hand part of the page, "is self-awareness."

Kim: Being aware that we're in the mosh pit of life, that being aware that life sucks, being aware that we're not happy. If we can own it- Then that is a part of self-love. We're not trying to be the hero. We're not trying to suppress it or ignore it or bury it. We're actually owning it, that life sucks right now.

Kim: And I said, "And when we have awareness, we, uh, then give ourselves permission [00:48:00] to actually feel it, to be sad, to be angry, to be remorseful, and all of those things that sit under there." I guess the challenge is that we don't wanna stay there for too long because that's when we do become a victim to life.

Kim: And I'm sure every listener, and I'm sure you know it yourself, and potentially I myself... We- we've all been there, where we go into blame or denial, or we make excuses, or we project out and, you know, blame our parents or blame our life or blame situations or in denial of our responsibility for it, or we make excuses for ourselves.

Kim: It's not my fault, you know? We've all done it. Um, but I said when we own it and we actually do decide to draw a line in the sand, that's awareness. When, when... What's the day you're gonna draw the line in the sand? No more blame, denial, or excuses. When are we gonna take accountability, responsibility, and ownership?

Kim: So to me, it's what... at what point... And I asked Jacob in that [00:49:00] moment, "Do you wanna draw a line in the sand?" And he just looked at me and nodded. And I said, "Well, then, that means taking accountability, responsibility, and ownership." We can't control what's happening to us or for us or through us. We don't know what's happening out there.

Kim: We also can't stop other people saying, doing, or thinking or behaving the way they do, or life experiences where, you know... And I even brought Dan into it and I said, "Where we lose people we love or we, you know, we put all our money somewhere that we think's safe, and we don't know that it's all gonna collapse and we lose everything."

Kim: Like, so we have no control. But we can be accountable. We chose to put all our money there. We chose to leave New Zealand in order to find our way home. We're responsible for how we respond to these situations. And so I said to them, "We can all become victims to this, and we can all feel sad and sorry for ourselves."

Kim: But who likes hanging out with victims and the pity party people? They're not, they're not pleasant. They're not easy. Don't get me wrong, Andrea. You know, if a girlfriend arrives with a bottle of [00:50:00] wine, and you sit there and you bitch about the world and life for, you know, a couple of moments, or you drink that bottle of wine, or you have lots of kombucha or you...

Kim: Whatever you do in that moment, I think we're allowed a pity party for some time. What I've learnt- Is the most I give myself to be in a pity party and I don't even go there anymore for this long, but at that point it was 72 hours. I allowed myself 72 hours. Now I probably allow myself seven minutes, if that.

Kim: So it's, it's interesting. So I said, "You're allowed to feel these feelings. The next step, though," and then I drew an arrow. I said, "You've got to take care of yourself." Because most people when they're in that fear place or in that victim place, we do anything but care for ourselves. We drink, we... And that's when I pulled Danny into it and obviously looked across at him and, you know, we don't take care of ourselves.

Kim: We sabotage or we have negative thoughts. We... So I said to him, "Part of that, my love, is if I make you a blend and I'm rubbing your feet, don't ask me about it. Or if I put oils in the bath, don't ask me any questions. If I- I'm gonna [00:51:00] ask you as a part of self-care that every meal you have something green.

Kim: Will you do that?" And he said, "Yeah." And I said, "We live by the beach. Every day, if you can't walk down to the beach, walk outside for five seconds even and look up at the sky and one thing you're grateful for in bare feet. Can you do that?" "Yeah." "Three times a week want you to run. You're a 16-year-old young man.

Kim: You're full of testosterone. You've got so much energy. You have to run the beach or get down to the beach and swim and do something." "Yep, he can do that," he said. I said, "Well, they're all parts of self-care or journal or just process it. Say nice things," like we have a champion challenge thing that we say at the table.

Kim: We have apology rituals. We say grace at the table. So all of those are, to me, are parts of self-care. They're little. They're... It's turning daily routines into rituals. So if you're gonna have a shower, put a drop of lavender on it and then, you know, body brush, and that's, that's turning a daily routine into a beautiful ritual.

Kim: So if I come into you with a mask to put on your face, don't ask questions. I'm just helping you with your skin. He was like, "Yeah." And so then [00:52:00] I said, "But then it's all very good and well to do that. The third step is you've got to be disciplined about it." This doesn't happen just with one or two sessions.

Kim: And you know with the work you do, if a client comes for one or two sessions, uh-uh. That's the s- It's like people that sign up to the gym. They think by paying all that money they're gonna transform and get biceps and glutes and abs. No. It's consistent discipline. Showing up for yourself. So I said, "Jacob, that part of self-discipline is, you know, you're gonna have to watch what you say.

Kim: You can't tell teachers- You can't swear at them. You can't say that they're idiots. You can't... Like, part of self-discipline is being mindful with your words and how you speak, and being disciplined in the way that when you are angry, you're allowed to feel angry, but what are you gonna do? What's the disciplinary act you'll do when you feel angry?

Kim: And some people say punch pillows. One therapist said to me, "What are you gonna do on the day the pillow's not there?" So I don't know if that's the right thing to do, but to me, it was, for me, it's go for a run. [00:53:00] Just go and spend that energy. Get outside, stamp on the ground, jump on a trampoline, do something to express.

Kim: And when you watch animals that have gone through crisis, they shake. They shake it all off. So that's a beautiful self-regulating technique to bring yourself back to home base. So put a music on for five minutes and just Taylor Swift it. Shake it off. Just do what it takes. And it's an amazing... It is a genuinely scientifically researched, recalibration of the nervous system, is when we shake all that energy off.

Kim: And I saw it... Yes.

Andrea: in? 'Cause there's this really beautiful study that I looked

Kim: Oh, good

Andrea: talking about science, and I wanna read it out. It was, um, about self-compassion and how it tracks with physical health, not just around mood. there's a large meta-analysis that was published in 2019 in Health Psychology Review, and it pulled 94 studies and nearly 30,000 people, so it was a big one. And it found self-compassion was positively associated with both physical health and health-promoting behavior. The strongest effects showed up in [00:54:00] global physical health, immune function, sleep, and avoiding danger. And the bit that I find the most useful clinically, Kim, is it said multi-session interventions, so not just one like we were talking about, but multiple, designed to build self-compassion actually predicted improvements in physical health and health behavior. So single one-off sessions did nothing. So we have to think of it like going to the gym. Like you said, one session at the gym changes nothing, but 12 weeks at the gym changes your body. Same with the discipline. Like, one session of whatever, shaking it off, doesn't change anything, but if we can turn that into discipline of happening on a consistent basis, that's when we get the positive change

Kim: See, I love women like you bringing my feelings into a scientific realm because it just makes sense to me, and I'm really grateful for that, that study. And again, you know, I come from a place of life experience, not necessarily science, but I feel like [00:55:00] my experiences can be scientifically validated. So-

Andrea: lived the science and that's, that's scientific proof of what you do every single day, Kim.

Andrea: Yeah.

Kim: I love that.

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Kim: So those first three steps: self-awareness, self-care, and self-discipline, the consistent showing up for oneself. [00:56:00] And I said to Jacob, 'cause I knew he needed numbers, we all do potentially, uh, I said, "Okay, so the self-discipline, taking care of yourself has to be for 28 days straight." And he looked at me and I said, "What do you mean?"

Kim: And I said, "Well, if you miss a day where you don't ground yourself or you don't, um, get out and go for a run or a walk or if you don't have something green with a meal one day, then we start at number one again 'cause it has to be number one." He said, "Why is that?" And I said, "Well, the research I've seen is it can take between 21 and 28 days to create a habit, uh, good and not so good.

Kim: And I'm sure it's longer for it to stay embedded, but it's the starting process and that's... 28 is a very important number to me because to me it's four weeks, it's one month. It's kinda like this beautiful space that's not too big, but it's not saying one day or one week. So to me it was like we gotta do this for four weeks.

Kim: Can you do that?" And he said, "Yeah." So I said, "Good. Well, uh, you know, if... remember, we're gonna have to start again if you do something wrong, and that means if you [00:57:00] upset a teacher or you get a, you get a detention or you get something happen like that, then we start again." And he goes, "Yep." I said, "Good." I said, "Well, with consistent discipline, that leads to better self-control."

Kim: Now self-control, uh, and I say the word control, I say that with a real esoteric understanding of controlling our ability to think, controlling our awareness, controlling our questioning, our curiosity, uh, controlling our questioning in the sense of being really controlled, collaborated at such a point where you're in such a good space that you can then ask quality questions.

Kim: So self-control, I said to him, "That means if we do this well, you're not gonna get so triggered by a teacher, or you're not gonna get so triggered by someone else. You're gonna find yourself coming back to equilibrium where you then ask a better quality question." Or I'm gonna give you two words to help you really stay in a space of self-control, 'cause he gets triggered very quickly and easily at that [00:58:00] time.

Kim: I said, "When someone annoys you or activates or triggers you or challenges you, two words could save you a lot of essence and energy." And he goes, "What's that?" And I said, "That's interesting." And he looked at me, and I said, "It... 'Cause it is interesting that someone has, has a different opinion. It is interesting that someone else thinks differently to you."

Kim: Now, you can't say it with tone or facetiousness. "Oh, that's interesting," 'cause that's,

Andrea: work.

Kim: that doesn't work. But really genuinely find it interesting that, wow, I've never thought about it that way, or I don't think of it that way. That's when... Whenever I see people triggered over Trump or Albanese or politics or religion, I'm like, "Wow, don't you find that interesting that they are so strong in conviction on that belief, and this person is the complete opposite?"

Kim: And I think we can all agree the, what happened over those, that five or six years of the so-called pandemic, that that was very interesting watching. You know, and this is where I learnt science, and [00:59:00] this is where I started to question even the most knowledgeable, most, you know, academic professors in science could be on completely different ends of the spectrum.

Kim: And so I even... You know, s- we didn't, hadn't gone through that at that point, but on that point, I just wanna say, you know, if I ha- if I held up a pen or a ruler, at one end you could have someone with all the evidence to say vaccines are the best, most scientifically proven, validated proof of saving humanity.

Kim: And professors and academics will support that. And then at the other end, you've got academics and professors saying absolutely not. It's not the one thing. They're not the savior. They're not what they used to be. They're da, da, da, da, and there's all this research supporting that. And so I would then sit here with people on Zoom calls or in my clinic, and I'd go, "Well..."

Kim: 'Cause they'd have families that wouldn't let them come to Christmas if they had or hadn't been, and family... Marriages breaking up 'cause of beliefs and all of these things. And I mean, but if you look at both extremes, [01:00:00] they both wanted the same thing: to be healthy and safe.

Andrea: That's right

Kim: so we all want the same thing.

Kim: Is it not okay to have different belief systems and values? And when you understand the human mind and how they come about, oh, my gosh, we're complex beings, and how boring would it be if we all thought the same? And so I would say this to Jacob, that sometimes a teacher just has a different viewpoint.

Kim: How beautiful that you are thoughtful and wise enough to have a different viewpoint, but you don't have to be arrogant enough to get your viewpoint across. In fact, if anything, know this: those beautiful teachers will always be... potentially be in a school system. When you leave the school system, you've now got the opportunity to be, do, or have whatever you want.

Kim: And he'd look at me and I'd go, "So if you go to find yourself swearing at a teacher, or if you feel like you're being picked on by somebody, then just in your head, put your tongue between your teeth and bite on it very hard and say, 'That's interesting,' if not to them, but in your mind." And he was like, "Oh, okay."

Kim: And I said, "The more you [01:01:00] practice the self-control and deeper questioning and curiosity, then you come to a place of what I call self-respect."

Andrea: Yeah

Kim: come from New Zealand- There's a beautiful word in New Zealand, in Maori, that says mana. When we have mana, we have such deep respect for our forefathers and -mothers, for the land, for Mother Nature, for Father Sky, for our ancestors, for what it's taken for us to be here.

Kim: And that mana, that power, the God within, is what we feel when we feel really strong in who we are and where we've come from. Now I, I'm gonna say it, I, I envy, you know, cultures like African cultures and, you know, Ab- Aboriginal culture, the Maori c- the Pacific Island cult- Like I, I, I wish as Pākehā, or white people, that we had stronger roots to that.

Kim: [01:02:00] And I just think, "Well, if we haven't had it, why can I not create it now?" So that's why I'm so big about family and these little traditions and little routines and rituals that we can create to create that, but also honor the land in which we're living. And so for us here in Australia, the Aboriginal culture, it...

Kim: You know, this country... Going off on a slight tangent, but I just wanna say this, this country is one of the most... And I will bring New Zealand into it. We are the most incredible countries. We have so much resources and intelligence and wisdom. In my humble thoughts, we could run our own countries, especially if we joined Australia and New Zealand together as, as a beautiful entity, a synergistic global entity.

Kim: Within these two countries alone, we would live very happily and very wealthily, in my humble opinion. But I know nothing, so I'm not saying that. That's just coming from the heart. So I said to Jake, "With self-respect, [01:03:00] mana, we have this beautiful ability." There is no way when you understand- Your work, beautiful Andrea, when you know about the body and you know what it takes to feed it and nourish it and nurture it and support it, there's no way you're gonna go to Tim Tam Island.

Kim: There's no way you're gonna face plant Woolworths chocolate cakes. There's no way you're gonna put crap into or onto your body and with awareness. And if you are doing that at the moment, it's just 'cause you don't know. Or if you do know, you're choosing not to know. Because if you really knew what we know and how we know how beautifully innately intelligent this incredible gift of 50 trillion cells is, there is no way you'd wanna sabotage that.

Kim: And when we treat the body well, guess what? The mind usually thinks well. And when we treat the mind well, guess what? We don't wanna put things into or onto the body. So it's a symbiotic relationship that should never go unappreciated or unsubstantiated. So I said to him, with this mana [01:04:00] and with respect, you will keep looking or searching or questioning even better.

Kim: Don't believe me and Andrea. Question it. We're not the gurus. We don't know everything. We're just going on a pathway that served us in a most powerful way. And of course, once you have mana or self-respect, then that means we have self-acceptance, the sixth step. And when we have self-acceptance, we appreciate ourselves warts and all, our constraints, our weaknesses, our faults, our qualities, our persona, our temperament, our beliefs, our values, our wonderment.

Kim: It's again, the polarities. We can't have one without the other. I know I have faults. I have many, many faults, but I embrace them now. I, you know, I make muckups when I lead weddings sometimes as a celebrant. I will say faux pas, which have now become part of who I am. Or I say on stage, you know, when you go woohoo, my daughter keeps saying to me, "Kim," she says, "It's woo woo."

Kim: And I'm like, "I still can't say anything [01:05:00] but woohoo." And so, but I've learnt to love that quirkiness about me. I don't have to be perfect. I don't have to know the answers. And I said, "So Jakey, to me, it's a pathway to come home to you. These moments of extremes or challenge or trauma or questioning are just an invitation, uh, to, to, to go deep, to ask yourself more.

Kim: Because when we look back on these times, I can't tell you what the answer is, but I know you'll look back at this time at some point and be really grateful it's happened." And I said, "I know that's hard to hear when you're feeling what you're feeling." And he looked up at me, no joke. All of them were just all sitting there...

Kim: Was the first time I'd voiced what my discovery of the six-step process was, and he turned around to me and he goes, "Mum..." He's 16. He goes, "Mum, that's so good. You have to write a book. I've never heard it explained like that." And so that, beautiful Andrea, is why I wrote the book, The Art of Self Love, in honor of [01:06:00] my beautiful son, and my daughter had also gone through many challenges, and you would know this.

Kim: So many freaking nos, so many mistakes, and especially as a ballerina, there is very fine line of making mistakes. The- phew, ballet, very tough route, but such a beautiful route as well if we don't get sucked into the negatives of what it could be. And that's in all sport, in all art, in all culture. So when he turned around and said that, beautiful Andrea, I went, "Well, if a 16-year-old can get it, a 16-year-old boy can get it, then there's no reason why the rest of us can't."

Andrea: Yeah. And that's what's given you those beautiful six steps that you call the circle of self-love, isn't it?

Kim: Yeah

Andrea: self-awareness, self-care, self-discipline,

Kim: Which is all the doing.

Andrea: the

Kim: you gotta do the work. You can't just sit back and go, "Life sucks. Why isn't someone saving me?" No one's coming to save you.

Andrea: do the work. Yep. And then self-control, self-respect, and self-acceptance. That's who

Kim: Which is [01:07:00] being. You've gotta be though. I am controlled. I am loving myself. I accept who I am. That's being. And then guess what? When you do and be, you can have whatever you want

Andrea: Yes. So Kim, I would love to bring this now into the body, and because a lot of the women listening are somewhere in perimenopause or menopause right now, because everyone knows that's what I love talking about. perimenopause changes the body a woman has known her whole life q- often quite suddenly.

Andrea: It's definitely, um, I've experienced some changes 'cause I'm in the thick of that, tail end of that. I don't know where I am, but I'm in that somewhere. And what does self-love ask of a woman in that season specifically when their body is changing and they don't know who they are anymore maybe?

Kim: Yeah. Well, I think it's asking you to love her through all seasons. It's asking you to listen. So when we get these signals from the body, they're not the... When I hear a woman say, "My bloody hormones," or, [01:08:00] "Bloody perimenopause," or, "Bloody menopause," it's like, so you're telling the wisdom of your body that it's not good enough.

Kim: I mean, I don't know about you, but me as a 59-year-old woman, if I fell pregnant, I'd be devastated, and I say that with love. I c- I, ugh, I couldn't do it. I mean, I, I couldn't anyway, but I'm just saying to you, the body transitions for reasons.

Andrea: Yeah.

Kim: But I think where I look at it, you know, when we, when we understand the journey of a woman, and if we come to more esoteric teachings or more tribal teachings, if I go back to that kind of wisdom, you fall in love with it.

Kim: And so, you know, the girl is born, the little girl, the inquisitive, curious, beautiful little girl who thinks the world's her oyster, and she's this amazing princess and queen, and all of the things. Um, given, you know, I know life's not perfect, but ultimately we're a little girl, the innocence. Then we transform into the maiden, and once again, our [01:09:00] body goes through massive changes.

Kim: You know, those, uh, you know, I remember, you know, the little rosebuds occurring on our chests, and it's like, you know, as girls you're like, "Ah." You know, and, uh, we don't even know what's happening, and then we get told we're gonna have these periods, and we don't even know what it is. And then with that comes pains and cramping and...

Kim: But I don't know about you, I just, I just wish as women we could explain to our beautiful teenage girls this is a rite of passage. This is such a beautiful transition from girl to maiden, is... You know, we have a period that gives us that beautiful significance, and for men, especially in the Western culture, there's not that being taken out to hunt and gather or having to go through sort of rituals of passageways for men.

Kim: I guess their, their voice breaks, but, and wet dreams may come along. But at the end of the day, this, it's still not really talked about. They get laughed at. We get laughed at for rosebuds, they get laughed at for qu- squeaky voices. It's [01:10:00] still not a real absolute... I mean, you, you know, Dr. Libby Weaver says it so perfectly.

Kim: If you understood the magic of your body, you'd be in awe of yourself. So our body, all these transitions and biological, biophysiological changes and transitions are... I, I, I j- I just don't even know how to say how magical and flipping amazing it is, but it is.

Andrea: what is meant to happen.

Kim: Exactly

Andrea: Perimenopause is exactly what is meant to happen. Menopause is exactly what is meant to happen

Kim: Mm. And so when we look at these beautiful young girls, now they're in maidenhood, and they're learning and growing. And when you understand the cycle and the luteal phase, and then all the, uh, y- you know, the different phases of the moon in relation to this, and all the beautiful, you know, the ovulation and the...

Kim: There's just... Again, you, you don't have to know it, but it would be incredible if you did [01:11:00] understand those beautiful phases of the follicular. All of these beautiful, again, magical stages of a woman's cycle. You'd understand why you crave chocolate, or you'd understand why everyone's pissing you off, or you'd understand why now everyone's your best friend, or why you're being so creative.

Kim: And, you know, if we could just... It's, it's designed. There's an intelligence way beyond what I'm even saying designed for this. And then if you're lucky and privileged enough to become a mother, well, then we move from girl to maiden to mother. Now, I'll say this energetically as well, 'cause there's a lot of women who choose not to become mothers or cannot become mothers, and I don't want anyone to feel like that's wrong or they miss out.

Kim: I believe they become, my words, soul mothers. They become the mothers of other people's hearts. They become the best auntie, the best friend, the best fairy godmother, the best, uh, guide. The wisdom for not [01:12:00] having children allows them to learn even more in ways that we as mothers never got the opportunity to.

Kim: So there's a reason why some women can't have children, in my humble opinion, and it's because they, if they choose and they realize the calling, they have become our soul teachers, our soul mothers. They hold space for all of us, and the entity. And a lot of them become fur mothers, and animal activists, or foster mothers, or stepmothers, and that's just a beautiful dynamicism in itself.

Kim: And then, of course, we move from girl to maiden to mother. Then the final season is to move into the wise woman phase or the crone. Depends what language you wanna use. Crone was always a witch with a big hair coming out her face. But I s- I'm

Andrea: sounds much better.

Kim: But I'm starting to look at the word crone, and if you look into the history of it and all that, it's, it is the sage.

Kim: It's the wise woman. And so it's a beautiful word as [01:13:00] well, and I'd love to give it a different meaning. But as we transition and It's scary because we've, we were never told about it or talked about it. It was, you know, a lot of women were seen to be going mad. Um, doctors would just try and give them a pill or a dis- a prescription to, to hide it or, you know, there was just, you know, a lot of relationships have broken down through the mother and the wise woman phase because all of a sudden women...

Kim: A- and here's a reason why someone said to me, there's a reason why we had children young. Um, nowadays a lot of women are going through perimenopause and menopause while they've got teenagers going through that change. No wonder men kind of go, "What the hell?" Um, so you know, again, give ourselves a little bit of, you know, kudos here for what we go through and grow through.

Kim: Uh, but there's something about the change, and I, I don't know why I didn't significantly suffer. I, I honestly can say I... My mother went through [01:14:00] 15...

Andrea: know why you didn't significantly

Kim: Okay, tell me, tell me

Andrea: Because I don't significantly suffer either, because we look after ourselves.

Kim: Yeah

Andrea: Like, we look after ourselves, and we feed ourselves good health and nutrition. You've looked after your mind for all those years, right from the start, and I've done the same. I think I've got knowledge when I see symptoms pop up, I've got the knowledge to know what to do about them. But you've just been able to do that inherently from the-- You practice the work. Like, you practice what I teach because I've got the to teach that. But you're just a, like a little living example of it, Kim. And that, that's why you don't have the symptoms, or you didn't have the symptoms.

Andrea: Yeah

Kim: I mean, look, I do get the odd little power surge, but it's nothing. And I've, I've learnt to embrace that 'cause I used to hate the cold, and now I get this beautiful... I've got my own thermostat which allows me, and I don't feel the cold as much as I used to.

Andrea: same. It's very nice

Kim: So I'm really loving it. I'm, like, going, "Woo, here she comes."

Kim: But I don't get covered in sweat. My mom went through 15, [01:15:00] 20 years of, in her words, hell, where she'd have to change sheets and all of that. And then one day, I remember looking at Mom, going to her when sh- I, I wasn't in perimenopause at that point, and I said, "I'm dreading this. Oh my God, it looks awful." And she goes, "No, no, no."

Kim: And here's another little element that mi- you might be interested in, but I've never forgotten what she said. She said, "You'll be fine going through perimenopause and menopause." And I said, "Why? What makes you so sure?" And she said, "Because you're very in touch with your femininity."

Andrea: Ah.

Kim: And I thought, "Wow, yeah, Mum was a provider.

Kim: She was a fighter. She was constantly had a very strong moving center, always building, destroying, creating, and, and having to provide and protect, and a very yang energy." And maybe, just maybe there's some truth in amongst that where if we don't honor the phases and stages and the chapters and the seasons, then the body, we res- what we resist persists.

Kim: And if we do not understand some tools... Now, as I, as, uh, Andrew, you just [01:16:00] alluded to, I'm not a scientist, I'm not a doctor, I'm not a hormone practitioner. I am an aromatherapist, and I am a mindset coach, and I am-- I've done a lot of training with homeobotanicals and herbs and, uh, homeopathy and things like that.

Kim: And so I've always felt there's an answer because if I look at it anthropologically, our forefa- we didn't get here through our foremothers not going through something and us not learning from that. And where they would turn to nature and plants and the extracts and the tinctures and the... You know, there was the red tent.

Kim: When women would bleed, they'd take the women into the red tent, and women would hang together and nurture that woman because of that beautiful maiden going through those processes. When women gave birth, it wasn't seen as a dirty, horrible, uninformed thing. It was a unb- what... H-how m- how many-- how miraculous is birth?

Kim: Like, I've had the privilege of not only having two of my own, but I've a-attended six births where I use my oils and my herbs and my [01:17:00] spritzers and my massage abilities to nurture a woman through that. I've been so privileged, and I know enough anatomy and physiology and using the power of kinesiology and reflexology.

Kim: I've studied all of those modalities enough to know that the body is a freaking miracle, actually.

Andrea: yeah

Kim: And if we just... And I'm not knocking people who do HRT or look at bioidentical hormones. I'm not. I did-- My one doctor, her way of talking to me was, "Ugh, why would you put yourself through this?" You know, when I said, "I'm just finding people really irritating."

Kim: Um, or I did find that, you know, my, my levels, my libido was dropping, and I was really annoyed at myself with some of the changes. And then she said, "Oh, why would you put yourself through it? That's why, Kim. We have HRT. Science is amazing." And she's 100% correct. I tried bioidentical hormones, a cream for six weeks.

Kim: Hated every moment of it. It felt like it was against my, I don't know, [01:18:00] my philosophy, my beliefs. Again, I'm not knocking it. It just was against my philosophy of why would I not allow my body to do what it naturally does? And having been through pushing my body to the extreme with 24-hour running and doing that for a number of years and knowing what it was like to stand on stage at a body sculpting competition, knowing what it took to be an elite athlete in netball and having done things like ballet, I know what my body Can, can do.

Kim: It's extraordinary. But I also know the opposing force of that, which is something I hadn't listened to a lot, is the gentleness, the strong strength and innate wisdom, the being quiet, the coming home to self, the, the, the rest. I've always been a doer and had to get things done, and it's... You know, I'm still trialing this on, Andrea.

Kim: I'm not saying I'm a guru, but to rest is... I'm gonna own it, it's challenging for me. I don't like to stop, and even when I [01:19:00] stop, I feel like I need to do something, so at least I can listen to a podcast or I can listen to a, a meditation. But yeah, I'm really struggling. Yesterday, it's... Are you?

Andrea: Kim.

Kim: Oh, good.

Andrea: you, with a few more years experience than, of life than me might have the answers for me because I've never been good at resting, but I know how important it is for us because exactly what you're talking about, the science piece, is that, um, our bodies are so beautifully designed that even when we lose our estrogen, we can still create estrogen via our adrenal glands.

Andrea: But if our adrenals are so busy creating cortisol and stress hormones because we're not resting and not looking after our nervous system, then that gets lost and we just make all the cortisol. So you do, all that beautiful self-care and learning to rest is really helping us create estrogen to keep us healthy all the way through

Kim: You've just, you've just given me something [01:20:00] that now scientifically I can validate in creating my own body's ability to support that estrogen level. And now I understand that, and I'm very grateful 'cause I've, I've not known what that is, but I've-- the word I've used instead of rest, and it might help some women, I've surrendered.

Kim: Sometimes I'm just so tired that... And now that I don't have children living at home, for some time, and I will do this most days, I will sit outside with a cup of tea. I will notice how many birds I can hear. I will listen to the roadworks just up the road, and I'll notice the beach slamming the waves. I will stand with my feet on bare grass.

Kim: Uh, my, sorry, bare feet on the grass, just even for a cup of tea, so five to 10 minutes. I now don't even call it rest. I just call it surrendering to the power of rest, so that I can language it in a way that I'm [01:21:00] still doing something. Uh, and I think for those of us that are doers and people pleasers, if that's the word you wanna use, or trying to constantly achieve or believe or keep growing, then for me, the growing and the believing and achieving is rest, and learning that I'm achieving that.

Kim: And so even yesterday, I was meant to go to two events, and I surrendered. I was so tired. You can probably hear my voice. I've been getting over things. I've been presenting a lot lately and doing a lot, and I just thought, "I can't go to another event." I just-- I've got nothing. And I, and I knew I could make myself because, in fact, my temperament builds energy from people.

Kim: But I also knew I had a big week ahead. My daughter gets married in a few weeks. I wanna be 100% on for her. And so in order to serve my family, and my husband will be home soon, and my son is going through some things at the moment, trying to build his whole thing. And I'm-- To be the best version of me, I know I have to rest.

Kim: I know I have to get that [01:22:00] beautiful... Now that I know resting is building estrogen,

Andrea: Yeah.

Kim: I'm so pumped because I wonder why I feel so good most of the time. And I think it's because I've surrendered into the meaning of what it means to allow my beautiful adrenals, not only- How extraordinary are our adrenals?

Kim: All I hear everyone talk about is adrenal fatigue, cortisol, adrenal fatigue, cortisol. And I'm like, "Oh, they're naughty little buggers sitting on top of my kidneys." Now you just tell me how amazing they are. Thank you. The reframe

Andrea: they're gonna keep us healthy well and truly for many, many, many decades to come.

Kim: I think it's the rituals that I've created, the self-care, because again, I'm doing something. I drop a lavender on my wrist and taking a deep breath

Andrea: tell me through the whole, talk me through your whole day of rituals, Kim. Like,

Kim: Oh, I just...

Andrea: from start to finish

Andrea: for you?

Kim: I have to think because it's so innate in me that I don't even know it's a ritual. But, you know, I get up in the morning, I try not to look at my phone. I'm mindful of trying to get the first [01:23:00] light coming, and I have my blind... I've got a plantation blind, and I have it tilted so that I see the moon at night if she's out, and then I get the sun rising in the morning.

Kim: So I just love that. And if I can't see the sun, I look out at the beautiful trees that are out there in the hedge, and I'll look at that. And then I'll go to the bathroom, and I love going into my bathroom because all my oils are laid out in there. And whether it's number ones or twos, let's get real, um, but both will alw- It's clockwork for me.

Kim: Like, there's an activation as soon as I step up. There's something there. And then I've got my Keep It Clean drops, which are my beautiful lavender, eucalyptus, orange, and tea tree. And after I've gone to the bathroom, no matter what, I'll put a couple of drops of those and take a deep breath. And the fact that I called them Keep It Clean, for me, it's about cleaning my mind, cleaning my beautiful digestive system, cleaning my bowels.

Kim: Like, I l- I do literally marvel at my body, at how it's so clockwork. And then I'll get ready for the gym or my walk, and that's when I'll body brush, dry, [01:24:00] dry body brush, and then I Body Boost. So I'll put my gorgeous oils on. It's just a 30-second ritual. Three drops of my favorite blend at the time into, um, either my body lotion or I literally...

Kim: We've made Body Boost all up for people. That includes magnesium, so it's all done for you.

Andrea: Amazing

Kim: I'll put that all over my body from toe to head, and I'm saying beautiful things like, "You're amazing. Look what we've got ahead today. What a gift. How privileged." And I literally say them. Like, they s- they're so...

Kim: It's almost blasé now. Like, it's so... Uh, but I know that energetically by giving thanks, I'm sitting in a place of gratitude which I know calms my nervous system. And I learnt that again through Dr Libby Weaver, where she said it costs nothing to take three deep breaths or to have gratitude, and that is a beautiful way to put us into a beautiful parasympathetic nervous state.

Kim: And so I've never forgotten that. So I'm very good at listening to some of these little people. I may not under- Not little people, little rituals from these beautiful [01:25:00] people that I might not know the science, but it makes sense to me 'cause I try and tap into that innate wisdom. My body knows more than I do.

Kim: Way more than my mind.

Andrea: know more than all of our brains do.

Kim: And then I will go to the gym. I love going to the gym, so I... You know, it's a priority for me. I spend money every week to have a personal trainer four times a week because I know that I will find other things to do in my mind's eye that's more important, like my work or podcasts or writing or creating.

Kim: So I pay money to have a personal trainer because I know I won't let her down.

Andrea: I have an appointment.

Kim: And I have an appointment and I have someone to keep me accountable, but it's keeping myself accountable. And I've been doing that for years. And some people say, "How can you afford it?" Well, in my opinion, I can't afford not to because I know I distract myself with something else to do.

Andrea: Yeah.

Kim: So I will...

Andrea: that about yourself,

Kim: Yes

Andrea: that's the way you then stick to what your values are and what's important for you

Kim: Absolutely. And I also know that we have priorities. So some people would say, "I can't afford [01:26:00] that," and I understand that. But I don't think it's ever about time and money, I think it's about what you prioritize. So I would sacrifice going out for a meal $150 a week than I would my gym. So I just... There's no compro- I'd rather miss going out for a meal or a function spending $150 or $100 or $200 or three, four, t- five coffees out a week.

Kim: I will sacrifice that in order to have that. So I don't think it's ever when people say to me, "I can't afford it" or, "I haven't got the time for it," to me it's not, it's just not, it's not aligned with your values and it's not a high priority for you. Just own that and then you'll be fine. Then you can forgive yourself.

Kim: That's self-respect. But then don't you dare stand in front of the mirror naked and go, "You fat fart. Oh, I hate you. You're horrible. Oh, bloody hormones, bloody this, bloody that." It's your body's trying to talk to you. I call them taps, whacks or macks. So you're gonna get a little tap with some of these little things that come along, and it might be a headache or it might be you've just hurt...

Kim: You've got a bit of swelling or your tummy's [01:27:00] not right or you've got diarrhea or maybe constipation or, I don't know, your skin's broken out. Your s-

Andrea: Yeah.

Kim: That's a tap.

Andrea: I call that whispers,

Kim: Yeah.

Andrea: from

Kim: Yeah, that's right. Then you might get a whack, which is, you know, um, you've fallen over and hurt yourself. Someone goes, "Oh, yeah, but that... No, you can't say that that was because I wasn't looking after myself.

Kim: There was a rock there." Yeah, there's probably been rocks there before, but somehow you've regained yourself or you've not been able to fall over or you've helped yourself. And so, no, I look at all of that as a whack. Or now you've got enough migraines or headaches that you've had to go to the doctor or seek help, so they're whacks.

Kim: And then God forbid you might get a mack, which is an, an, a, a diagnosis that you weren't expecting or a, a very big mindset or lifestyle change in order for you to support your body's ability to come back to an equilibrium or to health. So I'm very mindful that the taps or the whispers are just as important as, um, all the [01:28:00] beautiful things that our bodies do.

Kim: ' Cause the body's not wrong, it's just trying to talk to you and we don't listen.

Andrea: 100%. One of my biggest gifts I think that I give to the women I work with is teaching them how to listen to their bodies.

Kim: True. And every time I've heard you speak, and every time I've had you in my groups or on my podcast, it's the greatest gift I take away, rather than, "What? Bloody hell, what's going on?" But, "What's my body trying to tell me right now?" And even a simple thing like a headache. I had a headache two days ago, and I thought, "Oh.

Kim: Oh no." So first of all, I got out my, my... I call it the instant calm blend, but I got instant calm out and put that on the back of my neck. And then I got peppermint, and I placed that on my temples and just rubbed my temples. And then I thought, "You know what? I haven't drunk enough water. I have not had enough water yesterday, so I'm gonna go and have..."

Kim: Before I even consider taking anything, I'm gonna go have two big glasses of water, and I'm gonna sit outside and get some sun on me, and then I'm gonna make a dia- and then I'll, I'll look at my diagnosis after [01:29:00] that. And usually, I end up getting into work, or I end up going to the gym or something, and my headache's gone

Andrea: that you even had a headache yet

Kim: But, you know, I know people and I understand it because we haven't got time to be sick or have headaches or they've got to go to work or they've got young kids or they're in the, the maelstrom of nappies and time and no sleep and all of that.

Kim: They might take an over-the-counter medication. I'm not knocking people for that. Sometimes medication is a wonderful bridge. Uh, again, you know, it's, it's your own belief system. Or I know for me, getting that headache was also a reminder, "Oh, good, I can't wait to get to the chiropractor this week." And so I, I'd also see a chiropractor once a week.

Kim: I love osteopathy. I love homeopathy. I love aromatherapy. I love, um, my body work is also... I will try and have a massage. And now because I've been hurt by a massage person with my back and I've had two back surgeries, I now know my treat and I love going with my husband or friends or anything as we go up to, you know, the, the s- the shopping center.[01:30:00] 

Kim: We'll go. I've found my favorite one. I've tested enough. But they're very good with reflexology and leg massages. And so now I don't have to have my back touched, but I can sit there with my husband or my girlfriend, and we sit there and I book 90 minutes, not, not 60. And they can't believe I want my feet and legs massaged for, for 90 minutes.

Kim: But to me, it's so beautiful. Yeah.

Andrea: That'll be

Kim: Next time you're here, we're going. And I love then listening because I'm a reflexologist. I love noticing the little points on my feet

Andrea: Yeah

Kim: hurting and why, and I'm like, "Ah, that makes sense." So I'm constantly in conversation with the feedback from my body, and I love that.

Kim: So those rituals. I then go to the gym, come back. Um, I will then make sure... Well, actually, she always says, "Make sure you have something to eat within half an hour." I'm probably a bit bad at that because I do enjoy my little coffee ritual. I love getting... And I love cream in my coffee. So again, some people may or may not agree with dairy and things like that, but I love putting...

Kim: I get this [01:31:00] beautiful organic cream. I make my coffee, and then I sit outside. Remember, I don't have young children, and I don't-- I'm not in that process. Back then, I'd have my coffee after I dropped them to school. So I work it out.

Andrea: Yeah

Kim: but now I sit there and then I look at my diary and I just go, "Oh, I've got this amazing..."

Kim: I had a lovely couple that I was supporting just before this call. I couldn't wait for to... I couldn't... This is my highlight of the day, knowing that I was going to speak to an incredible woman who I love, admire, respect, and truly do revere because of all your knowledge. I just... You- May not realize just how much of a, of an anchor and a true North Star women like you are for me in my life.

Kim: So whenever I don't know the answer, I know I can go to people who do. Um, and that's a treat. And then I'll have my breakfast, and if I... Sometimes I don't feel like breakfast, and that's another thing I've really learnt to listen to, Andrea. I, like I still haven't had breakfast yet, but that cream gets me [01:32:00] through.

Kim: Um, some would have a bulletproof coffee, I guess, or put MCT oil or coconut oil or butter. I just love my cream. Now, after this call, I'm feeling hungry and I'm starting to notice, and so I'm gonna have my beautiful... I've got my organic chicken sausages or I'll make a beautiful om- I already know what I've got.

Kim: I've got, I pr- I food plan. Uh, not food plan. I meal prep on a Sunday after I've been to the markets on a Saturday. I will make up my salad with my kale and my beetroot and my carrot and my red onion and my broccoli sprouts. And so I've already got a salad made up in the fridge, which will get me through, uh, the week.

Kim: It really does. I

Andrea: a

Kim: don't dress it.

Andrea: and

Kim: Yep,

Andrea: Yeah, I'm the

Kim: done.

Andrea: Yeah

Kim: And then I've got my sauerkraut, all my ferments there, which I know I only need a dessert spoon, but I'm so addicted to them, I probably put a couple of that on. I love feta cheese, goat's feta, so I'll put a little bit of that on. Or I love Parmesan that I get from the Italian, um, B Fresh up the road.

Kim: And then I'll put my protein, whether it's... And no, I don't eat red meat, but I eat [01:33:00] chicken, fish, and I eat, um, beautiful eggs. And so I've got them all from my markets. And so a meal is very quickly put together. Sometimes I will roast, uh, my pumpkin or my kumara, my sweet potato. And again, that's another one.

Kim: So when I put my salad together, there is no ex- it's so divine. And then I have my... If I haven't got time to make my salad dressing, I'll use my amino acids. Um, or I will simply put lemon juice, uh, or sorry, s- um, uh, um, vinegar, apple cider vinegar, and a little bit of, um, olive oil, and that is divine. I love, I love salt, so I'll sprinkle a little bit of go on

Andrea: dressing, and it's super quick. a little jar. I always have those tiny little jars in the, in the cupboard. One teaspoon of, um, Dijon mustard,

Kim: Yes

Andrea: little bit of apple cider vinegar, a little bit of olive oil. Shake it up. It's the best salad dressing in

Kim: Oh my gosh.

Andrea: It's my

Kim: See, that is divine to me, and the dressing I make up in a jar has a little bit of Manuka honey in there as well, just for that little bit of sweetness.

Andrea: [01:34:00] Mike like,

Kim: the same

Andrea: Mike's Canadian, so he likes putting always a little bit of maple

Kim: Maple and they see that's perfect. Maple or honey.

Andrea: Yeah

Kim: And, and then that's in the fridge. So to me, again, it's a pro- But I did this with kids as well.

Kim: So when people say to me, "Oh, yeah, but you don't have kids." I would, we would all meal prep for the week. I would make beautiful banana breads, muffins, biscuits that would sit in the freezer all ready to go. So in the mornings when they'd make their lunchboxes, they could choose one of the four different sweet treats I'd made.

Kim: They could get their beautiful... And I love making crackers and things like that, but if I didn't, we'd just use the ones from the health food shop. So yes, I do invest a lot of time and money into the food that I choose, but that's because I have so much self-respect.

Kim: In my humble opinion, I think the greatest act of self-care is preparation. So then I've got my food sorted, I've done my exercise. Another thing I've really embraced lately is, um, having that rest in the afternoon, and sometimes it will be to listen to a podcast when I have to drive somewhere, or it'll be, [01:35:00] um, one of my beautiful meditations.

Kim: Or sometimes I actually give myself an hour off, and I'll watch something that I'm binging at the moment on Netflix or Prime. One of my favorite shows is watching the paramedic shows or medical shows, so I do seem to be really drawn to these real-life... Or I love listening to documentaries. I just love it.

Kim: Or go onto Gaia and I'll watch something off there. So I give myself permission to do that some days. Uh, and then... Or I'll write up my notes for my clients and do my invoicing. And then at the end of the day, I will... Often my dinner's pretty similar to my lunch. I'm probably a bit boring, um, but I love boring.

Kim: I think boring is wonderful. And then, um, I will then sit down, and sometimes I'll have little sweet treats, so I do have little pieces of ginger. Um, my favorite is a little piece of... I'll get out one of the Loco Loves. I might have that if I... And I cut that up into four pieces so that I savor every mouthful.

Kim: I make beautiful biscuits and very low sugar and things like [01:36:00] that, but I'll pull one of them out of the freezer and I break it up into bits, and I have my spearmint tea or something like that. I just love it. And I do these little things. And so I guess they're all rituals. Um, and then I have my evening shower again, where I'll use my lymphatic brush, and I just wash away the day metaphorically in my mind.

Kim: And then I hop out of the shower and I pat myself dry and Body Boost again half an hour before bed. And then I'll do my little eye and face treatments. I love my gua sha. And then I just... And then Chanel, my little cat, will come in. She's a little ragdoll. She's a rat bag and meows at me for something. And then I make a real point, whenever she comes in, I feel like she is my universal guide telling me to take a moment to pat her, which I've read, again, I don't know if it's right or wrong, but when you pat an animal, again, your nervous system is calibrated.

Kim: Yes, the love drug. So she is my little oxytocin reminder, and whenever she comes in, and she's come in when I've recorded [01:37:00] podcasts, I never tell her to go away. She's my reminder to exude and be and act in that space and place of love. So yeah, there's lots of little things I do, um, but I guess I've turned them all...

Kim: We have to shower. We have to make a bed. I'll put a drop of marjoram or lavender or chamomile on my pillow. We have to, um, clean the house. That's where I use our beautiful Keep It Clean Drops and our Spray Drops, and I'll put the diffuser on. And I have... I guess what I do, the oils to me have become such a place of a, an active ritual, um, of self-love, and to me, ultimately caring for myself, my environment, and the people and things that I love.

Kim: is self-love. And the more I fill this love tank, the more I've got to give, which is one of my favorite things to do, is to serve my community, serve my family, serve my husband. I'm saying this with love, not with a 1950s hat on. But even still, the, the... You know, I've had therapists say to me, "You know, the roles back then were very distinct, Kim."

Kim: And I guess I love the element of the '50s, where it was [01:38:00] very black and white, the roles that we played. Now, one of my therapists said, um, she was one of my teachers and mentors, said, you know, and she was French and in her 90s, and she'd say, "You know, you women are your, our own worst enemy," she'd say. And I'd say, "Why is that?"

Kim: And she said, "Well, how, why are women out there running the front line, running countries, trying to fight and do these masculine yang jobs?" She said there was nothing wrong with the '50s, having the kids clean, the house clean, dinner prepared, and waiting for your husband to come home, and he sits at the head of the table.

Kim: And you know what? For the first time in my life, I didn't hear that in a feminist way. I heard it in a very safe home, distinct roles, clarity, boundaries way, where people were safe. We felt safe. I'm not talking about any of, you know, I'm not talking anything other than beautiful, loving homes.

Andrea: Ja

Kim: there's lots of other things.

Kim: But again, if you've been through different things and didn't have a loving family or didn't have the love and desires that you needed, as we know through the landmark education, well, then it's what do we do [01:39:00] with that story? What do we do with the information? How do we become and rise above? Because if you're listening to this, you still survived it, and we still have an opportunity to learn from it, grow from it.

Kim: And I remember my mum saying one day, because she was always so busy working three jobs, and she said, "Well, I might not have taught you how to be, but I've certainly taught you how not to be." And I listened to her and, with love, I actually think she's right. I

Andrea: Ja.

Kim: didn't want to be a solo mum. I didn't want to have to work three jobs and not have a family around.

Kim: Like, there was a lot she taught me not to be, but I certainly know there was a lot she taught me how to be. And so the women in my life, uh, my grandmothers, my beautiful mother-in-love, my mum, my sister, my, my daughter, the women around me, and then beautiful women like you, who I definitely call soul friends.

Kim: I just feel so privileged and humbled that I have so many women in my corner, and I just want to be that for other women too. So my prayer through [01:40:00] my business, my coaching, my workshops, my retreats, is that I just invite people to come home to that space. That's all.

Andrea: Yeah. You do it so beautifully too, darling. So for women who are listening, what's one thing that you would suggest that they could start with this week to help them find their own self-love circle?

Kim: I would say move. Move your body. There's beautiful lymphatic drainage exercises you can do now which are fun. My girlfriend's got one I can- I'm sure she wouldn't mind me sharing you. It's nine minutes of just this beautiful lymphatic movements, getting the bo- I lo- I love it. If nothing else, do that every morning for yourself

Andrea: warm up is some lymphatics at the gym every day, yeah,

Kim: Well, to me that...

Andrea: games.

Kim: Well, I'd say they're easy. You feel so damn good.

Andrea: Yeah, it

Kim: You also, you've also ticked off I've moved my body. 'Cause most of us berate ourselves when we don't move our bodies or exercise, or we all think it's lifting heavy weights. To me, you know, in order... And I've listened to a lot of different speakers over the [01:41:00] years, and to get into that quantum realm, the, the, the potentiality and possibility of all things, we have...

Kim: It, it's actually anchored in our physicality. So honor this, know this, work with her, listen to her, give her the best. Absolutely honor her, because you only get one body. We, we... And yes, there's parts we can replace and parts that we can change, but ultimately, this beautiful vehicle that you were gifted, I would definitely say do not take it for granted.

Kim: And then so in moving your body... And I guess I have to add one more, but I'd add in the body boost, my beautiful body boost ritual, which is after you've moved, then dress her aromatically from toe to head, saying beautiful things. Even the wobbly bits, the gravity's taken over, and lots of little things that have occurred, and we don't have the body that we had in our 20s.

Kim: Well, you know what? I listened to my beautiful girlfriend Jo the other day speaking at my retreat and she said, "I don't wanna listen to a [01:42:00] 20-year-old telling me how to move my body. I'm not there. But I look to the 70-year-olds who are moving their body, and the women older than me that I can move towards and be a part of.

Kim: They're the ones I'm listening to, 'cause that's what I'm after." And I thought, "Isn't that beautiful?"

Andrea: lovely

Kim: I love the 20-year-olds. I look at my daughter and I just... All I say to her every day or whenever I see her is, "That is such a beautiful body," and she does have a dancer's body like you. You remind me so much of her.

Kim: She moves with this... I wish I could move like she does. Um, she's such a, a stunning, beautiful young woman. And I look at my son, and they're both very health conscious. I think that generation, the gen... I think, is it the Gen X? No, we're Gen X. They're gen... I don't know. What are they? I don't know. She's a Gen Y, I think.

Kim: She's a Gen Y. But they are very body conscious. I, I heard somewhere the other day that, you know, the alcohol industry has dropped by billions

Andrea: I

Kim: it's because that generation, they don't wanna drink, they don't [01:43:00] wanna trash their bodies. I

Andrea: good

Kim: I love it. So I... And I admire them, and I'm always telling the younger generation how much I learn from them and love them, and love the way they drive and call out and...

Kim: You know, teenagers, some would say, oh, they're brats, they're self-centered, they're all of this. If you actually really listen and look and learn from them, of course they're gonna have opposing forces and thoughts and opinions to us. Otherwise, those little things would still be with us. They wouldn't leave.

Kim: We have to break the umbilical cord, so of course we're gonna go different, uh, and have different views. And then when you see them as young adults, and I just look at my children now. My children, gosh. I look at them, Andrea, with such reverence. There's a lot of things they do that I taught them growing up.

Kim: Like, it's almost like they've come home to the values that they really appreciated and loved, and they've taken on and become bigger and better ones for themselves. And now I'm like, when I become a grandma one day, I hope that wise woman in me will be a land, a s- a [01:44:00] landing space, a safe, happy landing space where my daughter can and son can trust me with their beautiful children, and that I get to be the grandma that just gets to hang.

Kim: I don't have to do the sleepless nights every night and all of the things that we went through.

Andrea: stuff

Kim: get the fun. So I'm honored. My grandma said, you know, "Aging, yes, um, it can be challenging, but it's a privilege denied to many." And then when I heard with Cindy O'Meara say, you know, aging comfortably or a- sorry, aging badly, I love this quote.

Kim: Hear this one. "Aging badly is the relentless pursuit of comfort."

Andrea: Oh yeah, big

Kim: Ah. And so now I love the hard.

Andrea: Yeah

Kim: feel like going for a walk yesterday at all. I was so tired, as I said, and then I looked outside and the sun was setting and I just thought, "I'm gonna walk my beach. I don't have to go for a big 10K walk.

Kim: I'm gonna..." I did a 3K walk on the beach barefoot. And then on my po- I had to put it up. [01:45:00] There was this pelican just standing there. And I went, "If I hadn't come out..." And I'm intrigued with all wildlife here in Australia. Um, most things can burn you, bite you, kill you, eat you, and whatever, but, uh, uh, sting you.

Kim: But this magnificent bird, which just they, uh, astound me anyway, pelicans, he was right there. Like, I was within three feet of him or her.

Andrea: amazing

Kim: I just took this photo with the setting sun. It's on my s- it's on my post. And I just went, "Ah, I'm so glad I came out for this walk on the beach at the sunset." And it fueled me and brought me home, and then I ate and fueled my body, and then did all my nighttime ritual to...

Kim: It was lighting the diffuser and doing my nighttime body boosts and using the oils in the shower, and the eye compress on my face. Sounds like a lot, but it's, it's, it's not a lot. They're all like second rituals, you

Andrea: What I'm going to incorporate after talking to you today is the Body Boost. So the next order that you get on your website is gonna come from me 'cause I want a little bit of what you've [01:46:00] got with that. Because

Kim: Suffer

Andrea: know I don't pause enough. I'm a bit rush, rush, rush through everything I do, and I think that's gonna be a beautiful gift that

Kim: It's,

Andrea: learn from

Andrea: you

Kim: so beautiful. Thank you. 30 seconds. 30 seconds to two minutes, but you must,

Andrea: can fit that

Kim: you finish by placing your hands over your face and saying one thing that's positive. That's the one thing I'll call you to action. So in the morning it's, "I'm so grateful for my body," or, "I'm a great mom," or, I don't know, "I'm a hot lover," if you've had some fun.

Kim: I don't know, whatever it is, you must say something. But I also at night time will say, "I give thanks to my body. I give thanks to my beautiful family. I am so grateful for the life I live and where I live. And I'm praying at the moment for..." And I'm not religious, but I'm certainly spiritual, and given my connection with India, I just pray every night for Nepal, Nepal every day at the moment.

Kim: I'm just giving so much love there. But I'm gonna also say this, when you aren't in a good place, it's all very good and well to say all these nice things and do all these rituals when you're feeling good. But I just wanna be a reminder for the person listening to [01:47:00] this that might have that little tone of sarcasm or facetiousness and go, "Righto."

Kim: You know I get it. I hear you, I see you, I feel you, and I've been there. But I'm still authentic. I do not give up on caring for myself. If anything, I get more vigilant when I'm in that space. So I don't go to Tim Tam Island or face plant W- Woolworths cakes or eat crap that I don't wanna put into or onto my body, which is the easy thing I want to do, or drink a lot of alcohol or say, "Stuff this, stuff the world."

Kim: But I will my body boost at the end of that on days that I'm struggling or I'm not sure. I just wanna make this, this really clear. I'm still authentic, Andrea. I'm still honest with myself. But I'll say something like- "God, please give me the courage, grace, strength, and dignity to get through this." Or at the end of the day I'll say, "Thank you.

Kim: Thank you so much for giving me the strength to get through this day, and I love you." [01:48:00] Um, I just, I just wanna be mindful that life's not always good, but it's actually even more important that you do these rituals. Light your diffuser, get out on the grass, do your body boost, um, do a facial compress at night, put lavender on your pillow.

Kim: Those things are even more important when you're going through a challenging time or a transition. And our Beautiful Balance and Harmony, which is a whole lot of oils that include things like clary sage, rose, neroli, geranium, all the oils that we know are beautifully associated with their different constituents that make up, whether they're phenols, alcohols, esters.

Kim: They all come into play a part that when we place them onto our body or we inhale them, they also, uh, connect into and work with our hormone, our endocrine systems. So never give up, and never, ever underestimate the power of those beautiful small daily rituals that will anchor you back home. And I also will say sorry to [01:49:00] myself if I've been mean to myself or I've snapped or I've been awful to someone.

Kim: And, you know, I have to pick myself up and remind myself that, yeah, why was I like that even? Oh, I hadn't eaten, or I hadn't drunk, or

Andrea: check in with yourself.

Kim: anyway, I hope that helps, my darling

Andrea: beautiful. So it's just been gorgeous. I've loved getting to know your story more. Even though I've read the book, I feel like we've delved into everything so much more and yeah, you've inspired me for the body boost. And, um, where can people find you? Can you tell them where is the, know, they find you?

Kim: Well, I guess the best place to start is my beautiful business, and I'm so grateful you allow me to share that because I'm sure every small business owner out there, including us, whenever someone books something or buys something or comes to us with something, we do this very big happy dance inside of ourselves.

Kim: Um, and business as we know is, it can be challenging and sometimes we also [01:50:00] know it's the backbone of our country. So I'm very much into supporting small business. But that's xx8.com. Now you can see why that number's so important to me. The word twin...

Andrea: or the

Andrea: words?

Kim: the word 20 and the number 8.com. You will find me there, and you'll also find me at kymmorrison.com.

Kim: That's for all my workshops, coaching, retreats, and podcasts, and things like that. So, uh, and I would love to offer your beautiful guests if they do, uh, tune into this, you know, whether they become a part of my weekly beautiful self-love and wellness mentorship group, or they wanna learn more, do one-on-one, doesn't matter.

Kim: Just if nothing else, if you just wanted a beautiful oil in your home, Balance and Harmony, given that we've talked about perimenopause and menopause and the transitions, is a wonderful blend, uh, to use in a diffuser or the Body Boost blend that's just exquisite. Uh, and that discount would be to put in the, uh, the code selfloveclub.

Kim: Um, I'm creating a movement around self-love. [01:51:00] I want beautiful souls like you and the ones listening to this. Don't think this is an accident that you've heard today's conversation. I actually think it's a calling, and for all of us women synergistically to support, honor, and celebrate one another and the seasons we're traveling through, oh, the world's amazing.

Kim: Our life's amazing. This body's amazing. And then you, Andrea, and all you offer, oh, I wish we lived closer. I'd be with you.

Andrea: you are amazing, darling.

Kim: But we only see in another what we see in ourselves.

Andrea: Yeah.

Kim: there you go. We're, we're... We belong to the, the mutual admiration society. There you go.

Andrea: do. Thank

Kim: love you

Andrea: and I'll, um, link to everything in the show notes below

Kim: Thank you

Please hit subscribe or follow the show on whatever platform you're listening on right now, because you do not wanna miss a single episode. And if someone in your life needs to hear this, please share it with them too, because the more women who have access to this kind of information, the better. Just a little note, all of my free resources, my three-week [01:52:00] inflammation detox, and my 12-week whole health solution can be found at andrearobertson.health.

Everything you need is right there waiting for you. If you loved today's episode, please take 30 seconds to leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to your podcasts. It genuinely helps more women find the show so they can nourish, heal, and rise too. Until next week, nourish your body, keep healing, and never stop rising.

I'm Dr. Andrea Robertson, and this has been Nourish, Heal, and Rise.

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