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Connect with Georgie Beames - Psychologist and Coach

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Facebook: facebook.com/georgiebeames

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Ready to go deeper? Learn more about the 3 Week Inflammation Detox and the 12 Week Whole Health Solution at www.andrearobertson.health

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Dr Andrea Robertson is an Osteopath, Naturopath, and Nutritionist. Georgie Beames is a Psychologist and Coach. The information shared in this podcast is for educational purposes only and does not constitute medical advice. Always consult your healthcare provider before making changes to your health regimen.

Show Notes

Episode Transcript

Episode 12 - Food Noise

Andrea: [00:00:00] In over 26 years of clinical practice, nearly every woman who sits down with me to talk about weight loss says the same thing, " I have a willpower problem." So they blame themselves. But here's what I've learnt. It has almost nothing to do with willpower. When you're eating when you're not hungry, when you can't stop thinking about food, when you're battling with yourself internally all day, your nervous system is involved.

And once you understand how, everything shifts.

Today, I'm so excited to be sharing this conversation with you that I had with Georgie Beames, a psychologist and coach who has spent the last 15 years taking a special interest in something you are going to find fascinating, food noise.

And what she's discovered will change the way you understand your own thoughts and behaviors around food. So food noise isn't hunger, it isn't cravings, and it's not the same as emotional eating. Georgie describes it as that constant mental chatter, that internal battle, [00:01:00] the voice that won't switch off from the moment you wake up until the moment you go to sleep.

And here's what's wild. Most women don't even know they have it. Now, when I'm doing this introduction, we'd actually already filmed the podcast. So I found out during the filming of the podcast that I even had food noise that I didn't even know about. But as Georgie explains, this noise is actually a survival strategy your nervous system learned probably years ago to help you cope with stress or control or disconnection.

So in this conversation, we're pulling back the layers on why you eat when you're not hungry, why willpower doesn't work, and how to actually rewire your relationship with food by getting to the root cause, not just managing the symptoms. I'm Dr. Andrea Robertson, osteopath, naturopath, and nutritionist.

Here we nourish because food is medicine, and what you eat changes everything. We heal because the body has an extraordinary capacity to self-repair when we remove what's blocking it. And [00:02:00] we rise because feeling well isn't the destination, it is the foundation for living the life you truly desire. This is Nourish, Heal, and Rise.

Andrea: Before we begin, a quick and important note. Everything I share on this podcast is for educational purposes only. It's not personal medical advice, and it can't be, because in the context of this podcast, I don't know your health history, your medications, and what else is happening in your body. What I want this podcast to do is give you the knowledge to ask better questions, understand your body more deeply, and make more informed decisions in partnerships with the practitioners who do know you.

If something resonates and you wanna take action, please work with a qualified healthcare provider who knows your full picture

Beautiful Georgie Beames, psychologist and coach. If our listeners are gonna click [00:03:00] on this conversation today, and they see the title that grabbed their attention, what is gonna be the outcome that could possibly change for them after they listen to you and I having a little chat today?

Georgie: I think the first thing is eating is very complex, and there are a lot of layers to eating, so I really wanna unpack that today.

But for really your listeners to understand why they feel like they have control, and discipline, and success in all other areas of their life, and eating and weight is that one thing that they've always struggled with.

Andrea: Yeah. Yeah. So we're gonna... You and I talked about what we're gonna talk about. We had a little pre-chat about what we're gonna talk about, and I said to you, Like food cravings and food noise because to me in my head they were the same thing, and then I already know from Georgie telling me they're not the same thing.

So I'd love to talk about that. But actually today I was at the clinic this morning, and I was talking to a couple of patients about how excited I was that you were coming along today . And they said, "What's the topic?" And I said [00:04:00] Georgie and I are gonna talk about food noise." And they all... One of them in particular said to me, "What's food noise?"

And I said maybe you've never experienced it." And I don't know if I've ever experienced it 'cause I didn't really know what it was. Like, I get cravings, like I want chocolate. Definitely if I'm premenstrualy- menstrual or I haven't eaten properly through the day, I'll get a craving. Maybe could you tell us, like for my patient today, Lauren, in fact it was Lauren

if you're listening Lauren. W- what is food noise?

Georgie: Yeah. So food noise is that constant mental chatter around food. Like waking up in the morning, food is the first thing you think about. It's about, what am I eating next? And it's like a constant negotiation, and it has nothing to do with whether you are full or not.

It's very intrusive, and it feels really consuming. So it's actually quite exhausting for so many women that have food noise.

Andrea: So what does it look like? I wake up in the morning- Yeah ... and what thought pops into my head?

Georgie: What can I have for breakfast?

Andrea: But isn't that [00:05:00] normal if you're hungry?

Georgie: What am I gonna have for...

after dinner? When am I gonna have my chocolate? What do I feel like? But it's- And

Andrea: is it all day?

Georgie: It's all day for a lot of women.

Andrea: Yeah, 'cause I get... I wake up and I'm hungry, and then I go, "What am I gonna have for breakfast?" Or I meal plan because I like to be organized. Of

Georgie: course.

Andrea: But that's different, isn't it, to-

Georgie: That is different yeah. That is, quote-unquote, "normal." With the food noise that we're going to talk about today, and with a lot of the women that I work with, it just does not... There's no off button, and it's really having a negative impact in their life. It's like taking over, and it's really affecting their mental health in a really negative way.

Andrea: And so can you tell me about the negative effects? What does it do? Yeah. What's the kick on effect of having that conversation in your head all day long?

Georgie: The more food noise you have, the more likely you're going to give in to the food noise. You might be able to white-knuckle your way through it and distract yourself for so long, but it gets louder and louder, and you've probably felt that.

I've felt that before, until you give [00:06:00] in to the food noise. So it results in more eating, and then straight after you eat, like the chocolate, what happens next? You beat yourself up ab- over it. Like-

Andrea: Yeah. People do, don't they? The shame. So much shame and guilt. Yeah. And, I shouldn't

Georgie: have

Andrea: eaten

Georgie: that." "Why did I do that?"

Yeah. "Why can't I eat like a normal person? What's wrong with me? I'm such a failure. I'm a loser. I'm destined to be big." That's where it really has an impact. on our mental health in a really negative way.

Andrea: Yeah, because then you start having all of these negative conversations and negative self-image and-

Georgie: You spiral.

And then what do you do next? You wanna eat even more because you feel really crap about yourself.

So it's a vicious cycle.

Andrea: So a lot of my clients will say to me there's probably a similar thing but they'll... No maybe different I think, 'cause you told me it was different. But they say I do emotional eating," or, "I need help to not be emotionally eating."

Is it the same thing or is it different?

Georgie: So emotional eating is more the behavior, and the food noise-

Andrea: Ah ... is

Georgie: what's first ... happening in your head first.

Andrea: Correct. Okay.

Georgie: Correct. So the food noise feels like a battle. It feels like for many women... I've had clients [00:07:00] describe it like, "I'm at war with myself." It feels like a battle.

So it really, if you think about that, like it's just wearing you down. And think about, feeling like you're in an internal battle is, it's quite an anxious feeling- Yeah ... in your system, which isn't good also.

Andrea: I had that the other day because I wrote about this in a social post, you might have heard about it.

But it's not food noise, but it's gym noise. Because I normally would go to the gym after clinic on Tuesdays and Thursdays, and I'm a bit tired 'cause I've seen 12 patients. And and there's no one at the gym, so it's a bit lonely 'cause it's at 2:00 in the afternoon. But I'd leave the clinic, and I have this internal battle, a conversation with myself like, "Come on, you can do it.

You can go to the gym. I know, but you're really tired and really it's important to rest when you're tired. No, but you committed to yourself that you'd go twice to three times a week to the gym." So is food noise like the same? You have this angel and devil.

Georgie: Angel and devil. Yeah.

Andrea: That's what I'm hearing.

That's what I had, and I fixed it by changing. I go to the gym before work when I'm not tired, and then I can leave the clinic and come straight home. Feeling

Georgie: nice. Yeah. And I think what you're doing then is you've got a [00:08:00] strategy in place to reduce that noise and that inner conflict that you're sitting with.

Because with food noise, imagining that going on for every waking minute of the day... the women I work with, they say that they are obsessed with food. So it's a combination of this constant mental chatter that becomes quite intrusive, so it gets in the way of, your daily life. And then it's giving into the food, and then it starts up again,

Andrea: After the give as well

Georgie: after the... Exactly. Yeah. In a really critical way.

Andrea: So it's an interesting area that you've gotten into with food noise, because I haven't seen any other psychologist doing this. By the way, everyone, Sunny's come through. I don't know if you can see her on camera. I think there's a little bit of snoring going on. Sunny wants to be on my lap today while I interview Georgie.

She wants to be close to you. Of course. So those who are watching will see her, but those who are listening know that I've got a very cute puppy, and Georgie said as she walked in, you were like, "Oh, she's so much smaller than I thought." Oh my gosh, absolutely. Anyway, so it's an u- it's an unusual area that you've gotten into because I [00:09:00] haven't met anyone else that deals with this, and in fact, food noise, it hasn't been a thing that I've really heard of a lot until I started following you and became friends with you.

So what got you into this? What led you in this direction?

Georgie: Yeah, that is a really good question. So this is actually the only space that I work in as well, so I don't see any other client group. I have lived experience in this space. So I was bullied growing up. I was told I was fat and ugly every day.

I would be at home and sneaking food when I was alone. And so I know what it's like to feel like you don't have control, and your- Yeah ... self-worth feels really low as well. And then I tried all the diets out there over the years.

Andrea: As did every woman- As did everybody ... in their 80s and 90s.

Georgie: Yeah. That's exactly right.

And I- And eat

Andrea: less, move more.

Georgie: Yes. Doesn't work. If only it was that simple. And so what ended up happening in reality was I just got... kept getting fatter and more [00:10:00] and more despondent. And I honestly thought that I was one diet away from being skinny, and being skinny meant that my life would be perfect.

Andrea: Of course.

Georgie: And I'd meet a guy and then, live happily ever after. But in reality, I just kept getting fatter and fatter. And then I got to the point where, you know that definition of doing the same thing over- Yeah ... and over again, expecting a different result? I just had this moment, and it was right before I turned 30.

Andrea: And so were you already a psychologist by then? Yes, I had just graduated. Okay. And I was about to turn 30, a big milestone, and I find this to be quite interesting with milestones and family patterns as well. Yes. And- People

are always like, "I wanna be skinny for my 50th and an overseas trip."

Georgie: Totally.

Andrea: Or my daughter's wedding.

Georgie: Yeah. That's right. And what really came up for me is that in my family of origin, my grandma was married and pregnant at the age of 30, my mother was married and [00:11:00] pregnant at the age of 30, and my older sister was married and pregnant at the age of 30.

All 30.

Andrea: Wow.

Georgie: And here I was about to turn 30, and I was very single . And I was overweight, I was struggling with all of this, and I just felt so far behind.

Andrea: Wow.

Georgie: And I just thought that I'm never gonna get what I wanted

Andrea: It's tough.

Georgie: Yeah.

Andrea: Isn't, but that's like the pressures that we put on ourselves.

Do you know, I always used to say, 30 was a number for me too, because I used to say, "I'm not getting married before I'm 30," because I wanted to travel the world and dance and do all those amazing things. But when I hit 30, I was like, I think I got to 32 when I retired from being a professional dancer, and I was like, "Okay, I'm ready now.

Where's the man?" Yeah. And he didn't turn up until I was 46. There was other ones along the way that weren't very good, but- Of

Georgie: course. Yes.

Andrea: But yeah, it's funny that we put this pressure on ourselves- ... with a number. So you got to 30- ... and you had this pressure of "I wanna be thin and married," and-

Georgie: Yeah, and I

Andrea: thought-

because that's what was around ...

Georgie: that the reason, like subconsciously, [00:12:00] not, 'cause logically- Yeah ... I knew, but subconsciously I just felt at that point in my life that the reason why I wasn't married was because of my weight. And so I was really blaming myself for that. And so I just had a little mini meltdown.

Yeah. And then that prompted me to go in this other direction. And I was in therapy and tried all sorts of different things. And I found that some things helped but really I had to like piece it all together myself as well. And then I became a psychologist and so then it, naturally it's in my DNA.

So I started to look at different tools and different ways of... I was just trying to solve it in myself, and then that's why I work in this area to then help other women do the same.

Andrea: Yeah. Okay. So Tell me then, you studied it and you- Yeah ... learnt more about how to help people in psychology-

how the brain works- Yes ... and how the, the brain- Subconscious mind ... influences the body. Yes. Yeah, the subconscious mind. How did you take that- to help your weight [00:13:00] loss journey, and I know you have a beautiful husband- Yes ... now, and family. Yes. Yes. Like, how did it change that way for you? Yes.

Georgie: So I feel like it wasn't anything that I studied.

It was my personal quest- Yeah ... in this space. I u- when bookstores were more of a thing than what they are today, I used to go it was Borders down Chapel Street. Yes. I don't know if you remember.

Andrea: I used to go there too.

Georgie: Yeah. And and they had a cafe there, and I'd used to order my little chai latte.

Andrea: Yeah.

Georgie: And I'd go get all the diet books, and I would just be there, and then I started to transfer those diet books to psychology books.

Andrea: Yeah.

Georgie: And I was just... It became like a personal quest. That's us- how I used to spend my free time on the weekends, working it out, and then being in therapy myself, trying different mo- modalities in there, and just started to piece it all together.

Andrea: And do you get food noise anymore?

Georgie: Sometimes, but I know if I get it, I've been triggered. So it's got nothing- Ah ... to do with the food [00:14:00] itself. So I always ask my ques- myself a question now. Yeah. It's like, what is this really about?

Andrea: Yes.

Georgie: What's the trigger? Yeah. Where's the stress?

Andrea: Yeah.

Georgie: So I find with triggers, there can be big triggers, like a stressful event.

Change- Yeah ... is a big trigger, so any time we're out of routine. But what's most common for the women I work with on a day-to-day basis if... And also if they haven't done this work yet, is subtle triggers such as transitions. So transition from day to night, from work-

Andrea: Really?

Georgie: Yeah, from work to home.

Andrea: Really?

Georgie: Yeah.

Andrea: I would not have thought that.

Georgie: Yeah, from pickup to home, Ah ... if you've got young kids. A transition from being around people to being alone.

Andrea: Huh.

Georgie: So transitions is a huge one. The other one is a time of day. So if you've associated 9:00 PM at night, eating chocolate on the couch.

Andrea: Can I interrupt

Georgie: there?

Go

Andrea: for it. Because again, my patient this morning, I don't know if it was Lauren or there was another one, we were [00:15:00] talking about this with this morning, and I said to her I don't think I've had food noise, but when I probably would..." What you would describe food noise is when you associate some type of food with a particular event.

Yeah.

Georgie: A ritual.

Andrea: Yeah. So I used to live in Adelaide, and I would drive six hours to see my mom and dad, and I would... and same even now driving to, from Melbourne to them. It's four hours away. And I used to always get into the petrol station, get some petrol, and get a chocolate. That was my thing. And now I can't have chocolate 'cause it gives me migraines because I'm histamine sensitive, so I don't even want it anymore.

But I still get that, get to a petrol station, get fuel- And I still think about chocolate when I walk in, but then I don't have it because I've solved that problem. Like- Yes ... I've solved the problem because I don't want it 'cause I don't want the migraine.

Georgie: Yes.

Andrea: But that, is that food noise? That is food noise, and that is linked to an association in

Georgie: your brain- for a very long time about chocolate at a petrol station.

Andrea: Yeah, isn't that weird?

Georgie: Yeah. Everyone has an association with food.

Andrea: Yeah.

Georgie: And for a lot of women, it's yeah, specific foods. I [00:16:00] had one with licorice. Really?

Andrea: And

Georgie: I think licorice is a little polarizing let's be honest. I

Andrea: do like it.

Like-

Georgie: Yeah, me too.

Andrea: What was the link with you and licorice?

Georgie: My grandma. Ah. So we lived interstate from my grandma, who I was very close with, and she was very nurturing, which,

Andrea: She's like, "Georgie, darling, have some licorice."

Georgie: Yeah. And she used to have... with that generation, they used to have a container.

It wasn't just in the packet. Yeah. It was, "Go to the tin." Yes. It was like the little tin. Special tin of licorice. And so we would, be by the fire, and she'd brush my hair in front of- Aw ... yeah, the fire, and then we'd have our little licorice together. And then again, what I would find after she passed away, when I really missed her, it wasn't a conscious thought, but I'd find myself if I was in a shopping center, and maybe there was Darrell Lea around- Yes

I would just walk to Darrell Lea and get the licorice with no conscious connection or thought.

Andrea: Wow.

Georgie: And that's what happens with our eating and these patterns as well, that it happens underneath the surface, and it's really sneaky.

Andrea: It is sneaky, isn't it? Because I have, [00:17:00] again, so many of the women I work with say, "I didn't even realize until I..."

With all of a sudden they're eating it.

Georgie: Yeah. You're, like, knee-deep into a packet of chips.

Andrea: Yeah.

Georgie: And it's like, "What's just happened?"

Andrea: Yeah.

Georgie: Yeah.

Andrea: Okay.

Georgie: Absolutely.

Andrea: Amazing. So when we strip it all back, food noise, where does it really come from?

Georgie: Yeah, so let's start with understanding our nervous system. So I wanna talk about- I love the nervous system. I know. I talk about

Andrea: this a lot too.

But not, probably not in the same way as you.

Georgie: Okay.

Andrea: Let's see.

Georgie: We're gonna talk about biology, and then I'm going to talk about psychology, and then I'm going to link them both together. Amazing. So just bear with me. Amazing. I love it. Okay? I'm gonna take you on a journey.

Andrea: We love a bit of science on this

Georgie: podcast.

Okay. So with our nervous system, and this is just a very simplified version.

Andrea: Yep, yep.

Georgie: There are three main pathways. Up the top, if you think about it like a ladder, we have our safe and connected pathway at the top. And so this is where we are connected both to ourselves, with others. We feel calm. [00:18:00] We're, we are relaxed, and we are regulated.

Then when we get triggered, we drop down to the anxious pathway. So this is what we know as that fight or flight response. So we-

Andrea: Parasympathet- no, the sympathetic

Georgie: nervous system. Sympathetic yeah. So it's a lot of activation. And then we drop right down the bottom to freeze- Yeah ... which is that numbing out, escaping.

Now, this is how we are wired. So if you think about it from a survival perspective, and you think about animals, if we start with up the top of the ladder, and we might have... I'm just gonna use deer because- ... I went to the country and I saw a couple of deers. Perfect. And they're so cute.

Andrea: They are cute.

Georgie: So they often stay in packs-

Andrea: Yeah

Georgie: together. And they're just out together looking for food, and there's no threat. They're at the top of the ladder. They're

Andrea: relaxed.

Georgie: They're relaxed. They look

Andrea: like a little Bambi, super happy.

Georgie: That's it. Yeah. That's it. And then when they see a predator, they drop down the ladder to the [00:19:00] anxious pathway. So the first thing that they can do is flight.

Yeah. Run off. Run. And if they are unable to do that, then they fight If they are unable to do that as well, they drop right down the bottom to freeze, which is more of the collapse and the play dead.

Andrea: Yeah,

Georgie: so I had this-

Andrea: Do deer actually do that?

Georgie: No, it didn't. Because I

Andrea: wasn't a three. No, but- I was just observing

no, but do deer do that?

Georgie: I'm not sure about a deer, but I wanna- It's a

Andrea: good example though. ...

Georgie: talk to you about a mouse.

Andrea: A mouse?

Georgie: Okay. So I have a beautiful Burmese cat called Luna. Ah. And Luna likes to make us proud in the garden, and- I can

Andrea: see where this is going, yeah ...

Georgie: and find little trophies. Yeah. And she often finds a mouse every now and again, and she likes to bring it in.

Sometimes inside. Ew. I know, right? That's where I call Con.

Andrea: Yeah. "Con,

Georgie: we need help." And scream. But what happens is she brings the mouse to us, and the mouse is playing dead. And the role of playing dead- So you think

Andrea: it's [00:20:00] dead?

Georgie: Yeah. Yeah. And the mouse wants Luna, the predator- to think it's dead too.

Because what the function of playing dead is to do is to hope that the predator thinks that you are dead, get distracted, and then you can scurry off- Yeah ... to safety.

Andrea: Yeah.

Georgie: So let's talk about the modern world.

Andrea: Yeah.

Georgie: And us. Yeah. Because we can't play dead. No. We can't collapse, and we have to push through.

So what this looks like from an eating perspective and day-to-day perspective is we have the same pathway, safe at the top, and then we get triggered. So our triggers aren't necessarily physical triggers for most of us, but they're more subtle triggers. So as an example besides stressful events or some form of change of routine-

Andrea: Yeah

Georgie: day-to-day it can look like the transition from- Yeah ... work to home, day to night. It can look like specific tasks. So for instance, if you are working in a spreadsheet or something [00:21:00] complex, that can be a trigger, and that often leads to a lot of people eat in that moment. Like that procrastination- yeah

type of eating.

Andrea: Yeah.

Georgie: A specific time of day that we've already talked about. And as well being alone is a- ... is another one. So that triggers us down the ladder, and this is when we're looking for food. So we're looking for food when we are either in the anxious mode or the freeze mode. And in our system, there's dysregulation.

Andrea: Yeah.

Georgie: And we're in survival mode.

Andrea: So- I wanna understand this a bit better.

Georgie: Go for it.

Andrea: When I ran my clinic in Adelaide, it was very stressful. I used to have 30, up to 30 staff, two fitness studios in the clinic, which I had for 15 years. And every Friday afternoon, I'd finish at 3:00, and in Adelaide, the clinic was around the corner from the Haigh's Chocolate Factory outlet.

I know where this is going. And so I'd be like I'll just go see what seconds and samples they've got," 'cause it was half [00:22:00] price in the corner, in the back corner. And if they had my favorite one, which was a macadamia coconut chocolate, I'd go, "I'll just get two packets because then I can have one for a whole week and then another one for another week."

And I'd go home and sit on the couch, and I would be pretty stressed. I- I... My poor little nervous system, that 15 years it was, like, shot.

Georgie: Yeah.

Andrea: It was really put under the pump. I had a lot of stress in that time, and it felt like it calmed me, so it didn't put me into... When I ate the chocolate, and I didn't always have one packet.

Sometimes I had two, and then I couldn't eat dinner 'cause I was so full. And it wasn't actually until I started running my 12-week program that I thought, "I cannot ask these beautiful women who are working with me to eat in this way if I'm sitting on the couch eating chocolate every Friday afternoon."

That was before I started getting headaches from chocolate. Yeah. So anyway, but that was really the accountability I had to the women that I was looking after that stopped me from doing that. But it felt like I needed that-

Georgie: Yeah ...

Andrea: to relax my nervous system.

Georgie: Yes. And that is very common, [00:23:00] and that's the story or the narrative that we tell ourselves.

"It's me time. I'm just relaxing, and so food is part of that." But what's happening instead is we are actually numbing out, and we're not relaxing. Ah. So that's what I was doing. It felt like I was relaxing- You've just numbed out- ... but I was numbing out ... the anxious feeling. So you've just taken the edge of that anxious feeling, so we have associated that with, "Ah, I feel calm.

Oh, this feels so much better. I'll eat some more," or, "I'll do it again tomorrow night." And so now I get home from work and I'm a bit tired, and I don't have... From the clinic work, and I don't have chocolate, but I will make a tiger nut chai For the same kind of... Is it the same kind of feeling that I'm getting?

Andrea: Because it feels like it relaxes me.

Georgie: Yeah.

Andrea: There's nothing bad in it, but it's interesting 'cause I get home, like I really need the tiger nut chai.

Georgie: Yeah. Yeah. So I would say that you're using an external strategy to soothe your nervous system, where what I teach is internal [00:24:00] strategies.

Andrea: I want a bit of that strategy. I want some internal strategy.

Georgie: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because otherwise we're outsourcing that-

to an external strategy, whether that is, food, the chai, our phone.

Andrea: That's right, and a tiger nut chai is not a bad thing to have.

It's healthy and there's nothing bad in it, and I would never say not to have it, but- It's just not- ... if I'm having it for the wrong reasons. Correct. Yeah. It's just a transfer. Yeah. Okay. I need to know where this podcast is going. Yeah. I want some help. I want some help as we get going. Is there any more you wanna say about that?

Georgie: Yeah. Okay. So do you want me to then transition, do the next part, which is the psychology?

Andrea: Yeah. Yep, yeah. Should I lead into it?

Georgie: Let me just think about that. Are you happy so far with-

Andrea: Yeah. Are you? Okay, good.

Georgie: Yeah. Yeah. Totally.

Andrea: I might just do a quick check and make sure everything's working.

Georgie: Yeah. Yeah. That's working. Oh, could you imagine? I know. It's happened before.

Andrea: I think episode one I filmed five times, Georgie, 'cause I was stupid.

Georgie: Oh, God. Don't wanna [00:25:00] be there. Forgot to press this, forgot to press that. Oh, blah. I can just pick it up. Yeah, perfect. Just let me know when you're ready

Oh, sunny. Sunny. Yeah, I'm ready. So now let's move on to the next part- Okay ... part two, which is your psychology. So I see ourselves as a sum of different parts. So we all have a part of us, if we're talking about food, a part of us that wants to eat in the moment or have the chai tea in the moment, and then we have a part of us who wants to really reach our goals, whether that's around getting to your goal weight or focusing on, your health outcomes.

And so this is often where we have that inner conflict in place- Yeah ... with our different parts. So we have a part of us that wants the best for us, and we've got these parts that try to take us off our path, which is what I call our version one parts. Okay. The version two and [00:26:00] version one.

Andrea: Okay.

Georgie: So this goes back to childhood.

Andrea: It doesn't... It either goes back- It doesn't everything ... to childhood or it goes back to the gut.

Georgie: Yeah, that's right. That's right. In

Andrea: my

Georgie: world-

Andrea: You stick to the gut, I'll stick to the childhood stuff ... it all goes back to the gut. In your world, it all goes back to childhood. Yes. But they're related.

Georgie: They are.

Yeah. Y- exactly. So from a childhood perspective, what I have found with clients is there are a few key themes that have played out in their environments growing up that has affected their relationship with food.

Andrea: Okay.

Georgie: So the first one is where they might have had, say a parent or a sibling that has narcissistic traits or was quite competitive, like Mom competed with you growing up or was quite critical about your appearance.

Andrea: What would that look like? "Don't wear that, that doesn't suit you," or...?

Georgie: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's right. Or Mom really [00:27:00] not wanting you to get y- attention at a certain age because Mom wants the attention.

Andrea: Ah. Okay.

Georgie: So wanting to control, that, that dynamic. The next one is mental health issues. So if a parent or sibling had significant mental health issues, or maybe there was alcoholism in the family, maybe there was a divorce, might've been some domestic violence in there as well.

Another one is where there was a lot of control in that environment. So there were a lot of rules, and there were a lot of rigidity and restriction, maybe around food, but in all areas, like feeling like there was a very controlled, strict upbringing.

Andrea: Yeah.

Georgie: And the other one is just where the child felt like they had to be perfect to be loved, or had to achieve to be loved.

And then there were a lot of comments, particularly if they struggled with their eating and weight for many years- ... that there were a lot of comments, negative comments said about appearance and weight. "You [00:28:00] can't eat that tonight, but your brother can have dessert," and things like that. Wow. So all of this- Wow

and obviously more, like I've just summarized a few- yeah ... key themes that I see playing out, really shapes how we feel about ourselves, and whether as younger children, we got our needs met.

Andrea: Okay.

Georgie: And our needs met from a physical perspective, but most of it from an emotional perspective. And so with the clients that I work with a lot of their needs weren't being met for some of those reasons or a combination of those reasons.

And so they grew up in an environment where it might've been chaotic. They might have felt like they had to tread on eggshells because the house... The mood of the house and the tone of the house was determined by Dad and whether he was drinking or not. Or Mom's mental illness or whatever played out in different situations.

And so this is all set in our nervous system.

Andrea: And it's stored in [00:29:00] there, isn't it?

Georgie: It's stored in our nervous system- And it's stored in our physical ... and we don't even realize it.

Andrea: Yeah.

Georgie: And I've got many clients that start this work, and it's like, "Oh, do we have to do the childhood work?"

Andrea: Did you say that?

Yeah. I thought, "Of course you take me back to the childhood,

Georgie: Georgie." Can't we just... Can't there just be a quick fix for our eating? But this is the exact reason why I only work in this space, is because it's complex- Yeah ... and there's so many layers, and we can't abstain from food. We really need to create a new relationship with it because- Because we have

Andrea: to

Georgie: eat it

we have to eat, and it is all around us, and it is so accessible. Yeah. And the marketing and the advertising- Yeah ... and everything. There's so much thrown at us when it comes to food, and it's legal as well.

Andrea: Yeah. It's not like it's illegal or-

Georgie: Correct.

Andrea: Yeah. Correct. Not bad for you in the way that cigarettes might be- Yeah

bad for you or something- Yeah ... as a group of stuff. So Georgie, you were saying about the control, right? And I know I'm [00:30:00] talking about myself a little bit here, but I'm trying to use this as an example, and I know I'm a very little case of this. I'm sure people have experienced a lot more. But as my background, I was a professional dancer, so I started training in ballet at the age of three, and there's a lot of pressure to be thin as a dancer.

Yeah. And I wanna tell a story about something that happened when I was probably early high school. But would what happened in my childhood with dance, which wasn't family or it wasn't neglect, or it wasn't anything like that, but it was pressure to be a certain way, would that have a link into why I have the cravings for the chai-

Georgie: Yeah

Andrea: and nu- and nurture myself with chai-

Georgie: Yeah ...

Andrea: now?

Georgie: Yeah.

Andrea: Interesting. Okay. So in that early childhood years, I don't know when it was sorry, early teenage years, I lived in the country, so mom and dad would bring me up to do ballet classes every school holidays at a school in Chapel Street, with a very strict ballet teacher.

Of course. And my ballet teacher in Hamilton, where I grew up, was a lot, she's beautiful, [00:31:00] but there wasn't that same pressure. But I remember this particular day, we were all lined up at the barre in our little leotards, and, this teacher, I won't say her name, this teacher walked along each one, it was just before the Easter holidays, and she was like, "You can have one Easter egg.

You can have two Easter eggs. No Easter eggs for you. You can have two. None for you. None for you." And I still can picture where I was, like I can see the room that day where we all were. And I was allowed to have two Easter eggs 'cause I was very tall and thin, like I had that natural build already, but there was, just being around that-

Georgie: Yeah

Andrea: must have still had an impact on me. And then when I danced at the Moulin Rouge, so this is now as a 24, 25-year-old adult, again, a lot of pressure to be really thin. We all thought we were fat.

Georgie: Yeah.

Andrea: When we were there, all of us. Yeah. And I remember talking to three of my girlfriends, we caught up, and we had a little reunion in Sydney a couple years ago, and we were looking at some old photos [00:32:00] of us at that time.

We're like, "Oh my God, we were so thin." We were so thin, and we thought we were fat. And I used to get called into the office by the dance mistress, and she would look me up and down like this, tap me on the bottom, and go, "Two more kilos off here." I used to get told it all the time. And I've got like a cute little booty that most people would pay money to have these days.

Sure. But there, because it wasn't like-

Georgie: Yeah ...

Andrea: skinny, I was always patted on the bottom, "You need to lose two kilos off here." And you can't lose two kilos off your bum, like it doesn't work that way. But especially now looking back, we were so thin.

Georgie: I know.

Andrea: If I looked at weight, which is not what I like to look at now, but I was 12 kilos less than I am now when I was dancing there.

Yeah, so there's a lot of... That was a huge amount of pressure to be thin there, and those kind of things can have impact on us, can't they? Absolutely. Yeah. And it's the same as school. Like I remember we were all being weighed at school, in primary school, and then- You were weighed at primary school? Yes.

Why? It was just height and weight. How did they weigh them? And then we had to stand [00:33:00] up in order of our weight from, like heaviest to lightest. What? Yeah. So everyone has a story like this- Yeah ... whether it was dance class, whether it was something at school or at home. There was, there are stories behind it.

Wow. Even when I danced on the cruise ship, and my friend Suze will remember this 'cause we were there together, and she we used to get weighed I think it was once a week. And you had to stay within a, it was America, so it was pounds, so we had to stay in a two-pound range, and Suze was always- you've really gotta watch it," she was told that, and she was beautiful.

There was nothing wrong with her body. But she actually, naturally, the weight fell off after she left that job because there was no- Stress ... pressure. No stress about it.

Georgie: Isn't

Andrea: that

Georgie: interesting?

Andrea: Yeah. That says a lot. Does, doesn't it? Actually, and even when I left the Moulin Rouge, two kilos that- I just lost two kilos without even trying.

There you go. 'Cause I went to another dance job where they thought I was amazing, and there was no pressure about-

Georgie: Yeah ...

Andrea: lose two kilos off your bum.

Georgie: Yes.

Andrea: Yeah. Yes. I have so [00:34:00] many stories about that time. Do you know another story? One girl was told, it's very bad advice , was told to eat ice cream to put weight on her knees because her knees were knobbly.

Georgie, you would just die what happened. And then another story a girl was told to lose weight and just have vodka for dinner to lose weight.

Georgie: Oh, far

Andrea: out. And this is not that long ago. This is, oh, 20 years ago. You'd hope that education and knowledge was better then, but hopefully it's better now

Georgie: And then you wonder why women have these beliefs i- in their mind about everything is about your appearance.

Yeah. Like your self-worth and your identity.

And so if you look a certain way, then you're lovable, and you're acceptable, and you're gonna get the guy or whatever it is for you. And if you're not, then you're not.

And then the impact that has. then these child parts form negative beliefs about ourselves. So it's the, "I'm not good enough. I'm unlovable.

I'm unworthy." [00:35:00] And then all you need is just comments as well from other people in your environment- To say, yeah ... confirming that as, as well. And sometimes they are explicit comments, and other times they're just what you pick up- Yeah ... in your environment, that you know yourself if someone is judging you, you don't feel good enough, you're comparing yourself.

And so we carry these limiting beliefs about ourselves, and then it's like we look for evidence just to keep reinforcing them. Yeah. So we put ourselves in situations to prove ourselves right. "I told you I'm unlovable. I told you I'm not good enough."

Andrea: Ah. "I didn't get the job." "

Georgie: I didn't get the job." "

Andrea: Told

Georgie: you that."

Or- So I

Andrea: go- ... "He broke up with

Georgie: me." Yeah. I go on a date with someone that's unavailable. It's like, "See? It's because of my appearance. It's because of my weight. He thinks I'm fat." So we just, we are honestly our worst enemy, and I wish I knew about that, 'cause I really punished myself-

Andrea: Yeah

Georgie: growing up. I wish I knew all of this back [00:36:00] then. So our childhood has a lot of influence particularly when it comes to our unmet needs and these negative beliefs about ourselves.

And for the many of the women that I work with, and this was myself as well, food becomes a friend. Food is where we go to escape.

Andrea: Okay.

Georgie: Food is safe because just like your chai and your Haigh's chocolate, when you eat something, it makes it go away.

Andrea: How does it make it go away?

Georgie: So for a second, it's a pause button.

Okay. So if you don't feel good about yourself, you got... You live in an environment that maybe is chaotic. You have to tread on eggshells. There's a lot of anxiety. No one's attending to you. Often you're attending to everyone else's needs in the house. And so you're eating, and it just takes it all away.

Andrea: And in our nervous system- Does that put us into the parasympathetics for a moment? It has to because that's the nervous system that helps us digest and eat food. That's

Georgie: right. [00:37:00] Yeah.

Andrea: And so is it because we eat, and then we drop into the parasympathetics?

Georgie: When we eat, it numbs it. So- It

Andrea: numbs the sympathetic nervous system.

Georgie: Yes. Correct. But we've moved down the ladder-

Andrea: Yeah ...

Georgie: when ideally we wanna be moving up the ladder.

Andrea: Okay.

Georgie: So remember, up the ladder is feeling safe and connected- Yes ... and we're plugged in. When we move down the ladder, we are trying to disconnect. We are trying to unplug. We do not wanna think, and we do not wanna feel.

But for many women, they've associated that feeling with a safe feelings. They feel like, "I'm in a bubble. It's me time. Everything else has been about everyone else all day. This is my one thing, my one source of pleasure."

Like it's safe.

Andrea: Yeah.

Georgie: But it's actually, in our system, an extreme form of danger.

It's like the mouse collapsing and playing dead.

Andrea: Yeah,

Georgie: that's what's happening in our system, which causes- Fascinating ... wear and tear.

Andrea: Yeah.

Georgie: And there's lots of research in there around this leading to other [00:38:00] chronic health conditions, such as autoimmune disease.

Andrea: Really?

Georgie: Yeah. It's really the interplay between s- bouncing between anxious.

So it's almost like, and I see this play out busy, to-do lists, running around, errands, kids- Yep ... clean up. And then you're here too long, 'cause it's not sustainable, and you drop down to that freeze- Yeah ... down the bo- bottom for some relief.

Andrea: By having a wine or a chocolate- That's it ... or some chips

Georgie: or

Andrea: whatever.

Georgie: Yeah. Yeah. So to drop to freeze, often, we need food to do that, or we need the wine or the alcohol. And we know we're in freeze because there's often devices involved as well.

Andrea: Like what?

Georgie: Phone. TV. Scrolling. Zoom scrolling. Yeah. All of it. That's a bit of a cue, or a clue rather, that you're in freeze and not in the safe zone.

Andrea: Okay. So w- if not feeling... our unconscious knows we're not feeling safe. Yeah. We eat some food- ... and it puts us into the freeze mode. What happens if we eat a salad? If it's a healthy food, is it the s- We're not- ... is it serving the same needing? We're

Georgie: not looking [00:39:00] for a salad in that moment.

Nice try.

Andrea: But it doesn't... if I did have a salad, it's not gonna still put, if I'm anxious and not safe or whatever-

Georgie: let me give you an example.

Andrea: Okay.

Georgie: So I've got clients who, when they first start doing this work, it's like, okay, it's not chocolate, it's nuts. Or like- Ah ... they're just trying to make a quick swap that is healthier.

Yeah. Salad, et cetera. But we really need to differentiate between is this physical hunger or is it head hunger?

Andrea: Oh.

Georgie: So even if we're eating the salad and it's head hunger, we're still-

Andrea: Still feeding-

Georgie: Correct ... that in the incorrect way. That's right.

Andrea: But no one's gonna look for a salad, is that right?

Georgie: No. No one's looking for a salad.

Andrea: Except maybe crazy me. I

Georgie: crave salads. Yeah, just you.

Andrea: So that's my chai, isn't it? Yeah, that's right. That's the chai.

Georgie: That's your chai.

Andrea: Okay. So [00:40:00] I, it's so interesting, before we sat down today, I was like, "I don't have food noise," before we sat down and chatted, 'cause I was thinking if I get hungry and then I eat-

Georgie: Sure

Andrea: and then I, next meal, I'm about hungry- ... and then I'll eat. Or sometimes I don't even get hungry, but I ha- eat just because it's dinnertime. But, And I know I need my protein. But the chai, yeah, it's interesting because I didn't think I had food noise, but obviously I have a little bit of it.

Georgie: Yeah.

And often it can be the ritual of switching off. Yeah. So it's like I've been on all day, and usually that's- Actually

Andrea: transitioning,

Georgie: isn't it? Correct, in that anxious pathway, and then we need an external tool to switch off. But instead of switching off to relax, which is what we tell ourselves, that would be moving up the ladder, we move down the ladder to freeze, but tell ourselves that we're relaxing.

So it's like we give ourself permission. We think we're doing something really good for ourselves.

Andrea: So are you allowed to tell us yet how we move up the ladder, or is that coming later?

Georgie: I will share one thing next- Yeah ... which is pulling this all together.

Andrea: Okay.

Georgie: So what happens is we're [00:41:00] going about our day-to-day, and so we talked about our triggers that either take us to the anxious pathway or take us to freeze.

Andrea: Yeah.

Georgie: And we often stay between those two states. And we are in survival mode in our system, and it's very dysregulated.

Andrea: Yeah.

Georgie: And it causes wear and tear in the longer term.

Andrea: Yeah.

Georgie: So what happens in this situation when we are triggered in these two states is our child parts come in and take over. So it's like our 13-year-old self or our eight-year-old self is taking us to the fridge or the pantry, and they're not looking for a salad.

They're looking for- They're looking for chocolate chips ... associations that we have created, a bit like you with the petrol station and the chocolate. Yeah. A bit like me when I really crave the licorice. There are specific foods that you are typically looking for or specific patterns that happen with snacking, and a child part is in charge.

[00:42:00] And when you've got a child part in charge, I always say there's no room for an adult self.

Andrea: Okay.

Georgie: The adult self sits up the top of the ladder in that safe, connected pathway. She makes great choices. She wants the best for us. Now, she's not perfect, but she can sit with some discomfort. She can move through it.

She can just take little steps on the path. So the goal here is not more control, 'cause that leads to that all or nothing thinking and eating of- Yeah ... in control swings over to being out of control. What we're looking for is tuning into our system, understanding which pathway we're in, understanding our triggers and what got us there, and then using some internal tools to move up the ladder to place our adult in charge because she's the one that's going to help us meet our goals.

Cool. That's it for me. I want,

Andrea: I wanna move up the ladder and so I don't have... I wanna have chai because I want [00:43:00] chai, not because I'm-

Georgie: Correct ...

Andrea: coming home from work- Correct ... and feeling shattered.

Georgie: Yeah. And I think that's the difference. That's when you also know whether it's a child part in charge or an adult.

The child is about compulsion.

Andrea: Yeah "

Georgie: I want it now, nothing else will do," instant gratification. And the adult has choices. The adult tunes in, it's like do I really feel like the chai? No, I'm okay tonight." Or, "You know what? I do." But you're coming from it, you're drinking it like an adult. Yeah or you're eating like an adult.

I've got two young boys, and if they had their way, we would go to the petrol station every afternoon- ... after school, and they'd get a bag of lollies 'cause, they're competitive, so you have to get one each. Yes. They can't share. It's 4:00, what are they gonna do if I gave them a bag of lollies unsupervised?

Andrea: Eat the whole lollies and then not be hungry for dinner. Yeah, and feel sick.

Georgie: That's what's happening in your system.

Andrea: Yeah.

Georgie: There's no adult around. Yeah. There's no consequences.

Andrea: Yeah.

Georgie: They don't care that they're gonna feel sick in an hour. They don't care that they're not gonna eat their dinner in an [00:44:00] hour.

It's all about the here and now, and that's what's playing out in our system when our child parts take over and take us to the food.

Andrea: Okay, so I'm super hungry. I'm s- I am super- I'm super hungry for the information on how we go up the ladder. I am. Like, I really want... Are we ready for this

Georgie: yet?

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. We are. Okay.

Andrea: I wanna know.

Okay. So I'm very hungry for what we do, but before we do that, I would love to know Like I know what a craving is, and I talk to my clients about cravings all the time because usually I see cravings coming from a biological missing of something.

I talk a lot about the protein leverage hypothesis, which is if we don't have enough protein, especially in the first half of the day, our body will be looking for protein later in the day. But it doesn't know it needs protein, it just thinks it needs quick energy. So usually when the ladies I work with increase their protein more in the first half of the day, a lot of the cravings in the afternoon and the evening disappear because they're just not hungry.[00:45:00] 

And then also, if they start the day off with a bit more of a higher carbohydrate, sugary breakfast and not so many, so much protein, they'll then get sugar wobbles through the day where the sugars go up and down, and then they get more cravings again for, Gosh, I think they have, most of them will have like the, either the s- savory, the chips, or the sweet, the chocolate kind of cravings, or cakes or whatever.

But what's the difference with food noise versus that biological haven't-had-enough-protein craving?

Georgie: And this is where you've got the complexity that comes in. So I see that there are two components. So there is the nutritional side of it- Yeah ... which is what you've just described, but I also see a psychological component to it, particularly if we're talking about a pattern over time.

Okay. So if we're talking about, like most women have a pattern. So it's 9:00 PM at night, it might be something specific like chocolate, or it might just be a desire to just get anything [00:46:00] into my mouth.

Andrea: Yeah.

Georgie: So it might be general, but there are always patterns when you've struggled with eating over time.

So I recommend with the clients I work with, because I'm not a dietician or nutritionist, but I recommend that they look at their nutrition and make sure that they're hitting, protein targets- Yeah ... fiber targets, et cetera. Yeah. And looking at that, and then I deal with the emotional and psychological component of a craving, which is looking at this pattern over time.

And what's interesting is, like even looking at the GLP-1s as well, that really works with the physical hunger, but it doesn't work on emotional eating and it doesn't work on these patterns over time, like the 9:00 PM.

Andrea: So I've had clients who I've worked with on the GLP-1 medications, which is like Ozempic and Wegovy and Mounjaro, that say to me the food noise is gone.

So that's different then to them because they haven't worked on the underlying [00:47:00] thing. So the medication's helping in the moment, is it? But it's not solving the underlying root cause.

Georgie: Correct. And also it depends on the dose that- Ah ... you are on. So the higher the dose- the less food noise- Yeah

typically someone can experience. But not everyone wants to be on a high dose because sometimes these high doses might be $600 a month.

Andrea: Totally.

Georgie: Yeah.

Andrea: And so-

Georgie: And it doesn't address the underlying issue. And then when you come off it, this is where most people rebound with their weight. 'Cause they also,

Andrea: the food noise comes back.

Georgie: Yeah, because it's... You just press pause. And so a lot of women get really discouraged because it's "I've spent all this money." If you've been spending $600 a month, and then you wanna come off it it can bring up all sorts of feelings around that.

Andrea: Yeah, big time. And I also see it from the physiology kind of perspective, where if they haven't been strength training and they haven't been really focusing on building muscle, as they lose weight...

Of course, when you lose weight, you're gonna lose fat and you're gonna lose muscle. Yeah. [00:48:00] And so if they haven't been focused on building muscle, then their body composition has changed when they come off it- Yeah ... and then could have more percentage of fat. Yes. And they have more metabolically active tissue, like visceral fat, which causes inflammation, and it then goes down a spiral for long-term health.

Yeah, so really people who are on GLP-1s should be working with someone like me and someone like you. Yeah. And if they're working with you, Georgie, what does that look like for them? Is it appointments one-on-one or... I know you've got a beautiful app. What's the... Say if someone was on a GLP-1, 'cause I know this is a real there's a real huge- increase in prescriptions of these medications, and so a lot of people, a lot of women are taking this and need support from the other aspects to make it actually work when they come off it.

Georgie: Yeah. Yeah. And I see a lot of clients on it where let's just say their goal was to lose say 15 kilos of weight, and they might have lost seven with the help of the GLP-1 as the tool, [00:49:00] but they still are engaging in the same patterns- Yep ... over time. So it's not this magic wand f- that I think a lot of people would like it to be.

Yeah, in terms of how I work, because it's complex basically I have three levels or three options. I have a free app, which is a great place to get started, and I've got some videos in there that explains what we've gone through today and a couple of little tools to try.

Andrea: Amazing.

Georgie: Then I've got a membership- Yeah

which is really dipping your toe into the water with some more tools, and that's quite interactive. It's a food noise membership, which is quite affordable. And then there is my intensive program, which involves tools as well as one-on-one sessions with me so we can actually get to the root cause and do some of this deeper work in the childhood as well.

Andrea: Yeah. So it really is... there's no quick fix for [00:50:00] anything, is there? Not in

Georgie: my

Andrea: world- No ... or not in your world, are we really?

Georgie: And also thinking about goals and longer term, like I'm all about longer term change- Yeah ... for women. So even if you just look at the GLP-1 many women don't wanna be on it for the rest of their life.

It's almost like I just want it as a tool just to reset and then come off it, but we need a plan- Yeah ... to come off it. Totally. Okay. So just say I was on a GLP-1 and my craving food noise is the chai. If I didn't do the work about the chai, which I wanna talk to you afterwards, I wanna see- I want some Georgian- You're gonna offer me

a chai after this

Andrea: probably. Got a really healthy one. If I was on a GLP-1 and I didn't do the underlying work, and say my chai was a packet of chips and chocolate that was making me keep weight on, I would just go back to that, wouldn't I, coming off it?

Georgie: Yeah, because that's the association in your brain. Yeah. A bit like you still go to the petrol station-

Andrea: Yeah

Georgie: and still, [00:51:00] part of you is still looking for the chocolate.

Andrea: It's such a fascinating thing. It's so fascinating. So I know all these fabulous things that you offer, and I would love everyone to look you up, and we'll put all of your details in the show notes after the podcast. But if someone tonight can't see a psychologist today-

Georgie: Yes

Andrea: but they wanna make one little positive change tonight that helps with this food noise, what would be something?

Georgie: Yeah. So the first thing I would do is just look at your patterns. So most women have one to two a day, so it might be an afternoon at 3:00 where you have a sweet biscuit with a coffee, and then it might be nighttime eating after dinner when you're alone.

So identify your pattern, and then I would anticipate that there's going to be food noise leading up to that time. Okay. So let's just say we take 9:00 PM at night, and it's a desire for chocolate, like that is your thing. Like that is your pattern. The kids have

Andrea: gone to bed-

Georgie: Yeah,

Andrea: and it's [00:52:00] like- ... everybody house is quiet.

One of my- Moment to yourself ...

Georgie: me time. Me time. Yeah. So I would, at around 8:30 to 8:45, anticipate that this is going to happen. Like it's not a shock. Yeah. We should not be surprised. Yeah. This is a pattern. And what we wanna do is we wanna get out of our head and into our body, and the reason why is the food noise and, you know, the craving, it's head hunger.

Our awareness is in our head. You know that voice and the food noise? Yeah. Like it's coming from there. Now we can either be in our head or our body. Yeah. It's mutually exclusive. If we stay in our head, we're... And the food noise starts, we are pretty much guaranteed to eat 'Cause it just gets louder and louder.

You can try to will your way through it, which is only a short-term strategy. You c- I've heard all sorts of things- Yeah ... like you can take up knitting, you can use your hands. But it doesn't, again, solve the underlying issue. It's gonna come back at some point. So [00:53:00] then to get out of your head and into your body, it doesn't happen naturally.

We have to facilitate that transition. So the best thing you can do is, and the easiest and quickest, is use your breath. Plant your feet really firmly into the floor, and then I would take, let's say, two or three breaths in, and then make your out breath longer than your in breath. So if you were two breaths in, three to four breaths out.

And stretching out your out breath really triggers your parasympathetic- Beautifully ... nervous system.

Andrea: Yeah.

Georgie: Okay? It sure does. So we're moving up the ladder to safety through an internal tool, and it's free and it's internal.

Andrea: Exactly.

Georgie: So focus on your breath, and then after you do that, maybe, it could be 30 seconds to a minute...

And by the way, it actually feels good. Not asking you to do 10 burpees. No. This breathing actually truly relaxes you, not numbs you. And that's actually the feeling [00:54:00] that we're craving, is a relaxation feeling, not the chocolate. But because we've paired the relaxation- Yeah ... with the chocolate, we think it's the chocolate giving us the relaxation, which it never will.

Food is food. So once you do that, then I recommend closing down your eyes and tuning into your body and asking yourself, "Do I really feel like the chocolate?" Now, this is putting the adult back in charge. It's taking you off automatic pilot- Yeah ... with your robot thinking and those habits, and it's at that choice point.

And this won't stop you from eating it, but what it will do is it will slow it down with the adult, and you may decide, "You know what? I'm actually okay and I'm gonna watch a show. I'm gonna have a hot shower or read a book." Or you might say, "Do you know what? I actually feel like the chocolate." And if you do, eat it like an adult.

Now, what that looks like-

Andrea: Doesn't mean just eating without [00:55:00] thinking ...

Georgie: it's not like my kids with the lollies in the car.

Andrea: Yeah.

Georgie: Keep going. And it's quick. It's almost like this, we know that it's naughty or wrong- Get it done ... at some level. So we're shoving it in super quick.

Andrea: Yeah.

Georgie: I want you to put it on a plate. I want you to sit in a different seat. So we are creatures of habit, so I'm pretty sure if I was a betting lady, you would probably be in the same conditions, like same seat in the couch, same TV on, same type of food, same type of habit. Sit in a different seat, so you're already mixing it up.

It's a pattern- Yeah ... interrupt. Plate it up, and use your non-dominant hand-

Andrea: Oh, wow, this is so interesting ...

Georgie: to eat it. Because what's gonna happen is it's going to feel really uncomfortable and weird, and that's what we want. Because this pattern, because it's so entrenched in your brain, it feels so natural, and it's quick, and it's habitual, and it feels good.

We wanna create some discomfort because the adult's in [00:56:00] charge. And you'll notice it will feel different, and that will tell you a lot in that.

Andrea: Oh, it's so interesting.

Georgie: That it's not about the food.

Andrea: Yeah. It's

Georgie: about the ritual.

Andrea: Yeah, it's about the ritual, and that numbing piece before if you're not being mindful.

Georgie: Yes.

Andrea: Yeah. I really love that as a tip, and I hope everybody tries that tonight. But the breath, like is such a beautiful piece, and I talk about it a lot in my work, too, to take us into that parasympathetic- Yeah ... rest, relax, digest nervous system. I love my clients to take two big inhale longer exhales, exactly like you described- Yes

just before they start eating.

Georgie: Yeah.

Andrea: Because it actually helps their body get into the parasympathetic nervous system, where the digestive function works better than just again, eating mindlessly- Mindlessly ... and eating in the rushed- Anxious pathway ... sympathetic nervous system. Yes. Yeah.

So many of our beautiful listeners and the women I work with are all over 35, into their 40s, 50s, and beyond. A lot of them are navigating perimenopause, which is a huge change in our body.

Georgie: Me [00:57:00] too.

Andrea: Yeah, me too. And our bodies don't behave like they used to.

Does food noise get louder in that age and stage because of the change or because of another reason?

Georgie: It can. I think the perimenopause is just so much going on from a physical perspective with the hormones, and then the symptoms and some such as even lack of sleep. Yeah. But from a psychological perspective, and I know this because I'm going through this as well myself, is that I really feel like it's a time where we reflect a lot more on our life, what's important to us.

We're less likely to tolerate certain things, certain relationships, certain friendships, and I feel like this is the time that I actually see a lot of clients engage in psychology for that exact reason. It's almost like, i'm done with that, and I want more for myself, and I'm [00:58:00] not gonna tolerate that anymore.

And I actually... I'm ready to change, and I wanna change, and I want more for myself."

Andrea: Yeah. I think that's why so many people probably start working with you at that age, and with me. I also think because in this age we also see our own mortality, and so a lot of the women I work with go, "Okay, all of a sudden I can see..."

And I got that.

Yeah, so when I was 45, I started seeing my own mortality and realizing that was... I wanted the rest of my life to be really healthy and well, and I think that's why a lot of women come and work with me, because they see the same thing, and they wanna make change at this age. And and they all say, "I don't want this disease, and I don't want that disease."

But it's a... I guess that's a really important part of working with you in this age and stage as well.

Georgie: Yeah. Absolutely. I just think it is such a crucial time, and I think it can be a very uncomfortable time in this journey as well. Yeah. And I do think it's a gift. I've resisted it at the [00:59:00] start. But I really feel like there are so many gifts at this stage, that you have choices that you can make, and you really are in charge of your own destiny.

Andrea: Yeah. And I think... I hear from people who have come out the other end, they say they feel like this beautiful, calmer, wiser goddess of a woman- Yeah ... when they come out the other end.

It's a bit of a rollercoaster now, but we'll both get there, Georgie.

Georgie: Absolutely.

Andrea: Another 10 years. So I've got... I think we're nearly at the end. I think we're doing really well here.

Georgie: Yeah.

Andrea: I think we've answered a lot of questions and made it really interesting for everyone. Sunny's feeling like it's the end too.

I think she's r- ready to wriggle and go for a walk. But, I have a couple more questions, just a couple of little ones. So after 15 years of you working only in this kind of space, what's something that you understand now that you feel like you got wrong when you first started?

Georgie: Just the whole willpower, discipline, control message.

Oh, can we talk

Andrea: about willpower?

Georgie: Yes, we can. So the way I see willpower is it's like working with a drained battery, [01:00:00] and it's really ineffective to rely on this strategy in the longer term. So if you think about, if we keep with our example of 9- 9:00 PM eating chocolate- Yeah ... you might wake up at 7:00 and think, "You know what?

I feel really strong. I'm not gonna have the chocolate tonight. I've got this." And then- 'Cause your

Andrea: battery's full

Georgie: in the morning ... your battery's full. It's been fully charged overnight.

Andrea: Yeah.

Georgie: So then you go about your day, errands, running around, busyness, like even, performing, masking, like all of that, dinner, dishes.

For me, it's like then I've got kids' homework- Yeah ... and all sorts of things. And then you get to 9:00 PM, and then maybe the, the house is quiet, and you're like, "Where's the chocolate? I just, I need it." The willpower battery is drained.

Andrea: And that's where you can't go, "No, not tonight," "I've got the willpower to say-" That's right

or people go, "I sh- I should have the willpower, but I just can't. I'm just gonna-" I just... Or

Georgie: I'll start tomorrow.

Andrea: Yeah. That's the other one. Start on Monday.

Georgie: Start on Monday or start tomorrow. Yeah. Which is that old dieting mentality as well.

Andrea: [01:01:00] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so willpower doesn't work.

Georgie: No.

Andrea: Most of the women, when I chat to people, I always have a discovery call before my 12-week program, and I always ask the question, "So why do you wanna work with someone like me?"

"Why wouldn't you be able to do this on your own?" Every single woman, I can tell you, says, "I just need more willpower and more accountability." Exactly. But we don't, do we? No. 'Cause it's all inside of ourselves- Yes ... and we can actually get there. They need some more breathing. Yes, that's right. Some more breathwork.

Georgie: Some more breathwork and just some different strategies- Yeah ... as well. Because there's lots of layers to eating. So for instance, there's emotional eating, reward eating, boredom eating, all or nothing eating. There's perfectionism, procrastination. There's identity, like seeing yourself as, back in year five, like that old, big identity.

There is using excess weight as protection. That came into my head just then. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. [01:02:00] Because i've had some clients with very sad stories where they've, they're using their weight to make them feel unattractive to men because they had an experience when they were younger where they felt threatened in a some way-

Yeah

Andrea: or some kind of abuse from a man.

Georgie: That would be 50% of my clients. Really? Yeah. Just anecdotally.

Andrea: Yeah. That's so interesting because it just, it's protection and keeps them safe, doesn't it?

Georgie: It makes sense. It's survival. Yeah. Back to that biology this is a survival strategy, and a really good one at a young age.

But what happens is, it's these protection strategies that we put in when we were younger served a really good purpose, but now they're no longer serving us, and they're over-functioning and over-protecting us, and they're leading us away from who we truly wanna be and our goals.

Andrea: So what does it actually feel like day to day for someone who's free of all of this-

and hasn't got the noise? What does a day look like?

Georgie: I would say that I'm tuned [01:03:00] in a lot more, if you can compare me to my version one self- yeah ... right?

Andrea: Yeah. Tell us about the

Georgie: Georgie of

Andrea: today.

Georgie: Yeah, the version two. Very much so tuned in. I used to not wanna get into my body at all. I was like, version one was opering- operating from the neck up.

Andrea: Yeah

Georgie: ugh, like what's this? I don't wanna get in there. It's yucky, your feelings and everything. What am I gonna find? Whereas like I'm so tuned in multiple times a day. I love being in my body. And I'm tuning into my feelings, my triggers, my hunger signals. I'm definitely not perfect. I do love a honeycomb ice cream.

Is that your thing? Yeah. At the moment it is. But it's, when I notice if I do experience more food noise, it doesn't go away for life, but if you've struggled with this, it's like your Achilles heel. Yeah. So what I find with when clients do this work with me, and we finish up the work, what I say to them [01:04:00] is, "You know that you've been triggered when you have the food noise, and you go back to the food, and it's got nothing to do with the food."

So that's where you ask yourself, like, "What's triggered me? What's changed? What's the stress? What are some of those subtle triggers?" And then I address... I've got the tools that I use- Yeah ... to address that.

Andrea: I love it. And knowledge in every aspect is power, isn't it? So knowledge about your body, knowledge about- Yeah

the tools you have, it gives you the power to be in that adult.

Georgie: Cho- it gives you choices. Yeah.

Andrea: Yeah, and that's the adult person making the choice- Exactly ... rather than the child. Exactly. Yeah. Okay. I think it's amazing what you've shared with us. I think everyone's gonna really love this conversation.

Georgie: Oh, good.

Andrea: Before we finish, I have some rapid fire questions

Georgie: for you. Let's do it.

Andrea: Let's do it. Okay, so you just gotta give me a quick answer.

Georgie: Okay.

Andrea: Sweet or savory?

Georgie: Savory.

Andrea: Oh, I'm sweet. The chocolate again. And chocolate and chai. Are you a morning person or a night owl?

Georgie: 100% morning, and preferably by myself.

I do journaling in the morning- ... like morning pages, and I love, I have, get [01:05:00] my cup of tea, and I no kids around. I love it.

Andrea: I'm a morning person too. Yeah. Yeah, I love that time to myself. What's the best piece of advice you've ever ignored?

Georgie: That is a challenging question. I would say taking my time with decisions.

Oh. So I'm a little bit of a see something, want it, go get it, and sometimes that's worked, and other times it was me doing that to reduce my anxiety because I just wanted an outcome.

Andrea: Okay, yeah, and problem solve or something.

Georgie: Yeah. Yeah. Whereas for me, the lesson is sitting in some discomfort- Yeah ... and letting things slow it down and letting things play out a bit more.

Andrea: Getting comfortable with being uncomfortable.

Georgie: 100%.

Andrea: One food that you would never diet away?

Georgie: Right now it would be the honeycomb ice cream

Andrea: Yeah. Yeah. And because we shouldn't ever diet, diets don't work.

Georgie: No. And actually the more you diet, that leads to more and more food noise as well. It, [01:06:00] wouldn't it?

So those things go hand-in-hand.

Andrea: Yeah, that's why we don't diet. We just eat in a way that our body loves. Yeah.

Georgie: And loves us back. And tuning in.

Andrea: Yeah And tuning in, and I always say be eating a beautiful anti-inflammatory diet that's right for you 85 to 90% of the time, and the rest of the time just enjoy whatever.

Georgie: Yep.

Andrea: What's one word your clients would use to describe you? I would say relatable. Oh, yeah. You're very relatable. Yeah. You're gorgeous.

Georgie: I don't, I'm not... I'm probably not the tra- traditional in a clinic, white jacket.

Andrea: Yeah ...

Georgie: I'm just myself.

Andrea: Yeah. A gorgeous person.

Georgie: No,

Andrea: thank you. A gorgeous self she is.

What's one thing you do to switch your brain off at the end of the day? I do my own check-ins- Yeah ... and and do some breathing and use some other tools. The tools I use and use with clients, EFT tapping.

Oh, yeah. Tapping.

Georgie: And I do some EMDR. I

Andrea: love EMDR. Yeah. I've got a story about that.

Oh, really? Have I told you that?

Georgie: No.

Andrea: Okay. Nothing to do with food noise, this story.

Georgie: Okay.

Andrea: I have my little puppy Sunny here. Before Sunny, there was one called Tilly. [01:07:00] 

Georgie: Yeah. I know where this is going.

Andrea: Yeah. And Tilly got killed by a car on Mother's Day outside my house- Aw ... because of a really annoying ex-boyfriend that let her off the lead.

Yep, he's no longer my boyfriend obviously.

Georgie: No. No. Good

Andrea: choice. And I cried myself to sleep every night for three months. I couldn't stop crying. I would get in bed, and I had a video of her, and I'd watch the video, and then I'd cry myself to bed. Cry myself to sleep. And after about three months, I was like, "This is ridiculous."

I need to stop crying. But I couldn't stop it. I was- Yeah ... so- You couldn't control it. No, I couldn't control it. Anyway, I have a... And at, this is when I was back living in Adelaide, I have a lovely psychologist that would help me. About every six months I'd see her when I was really stressed with running a team at the clinic or whatever, and I went to her and I said, "Carmel, you need to help me stop crying.

I can't stop crying. I know it was really sad, I know, but it's been three months." And she's like, "Oh, I think we're gonna do EMDR on you." And it's eye movement desensitization- Desensitization

resensitization. Is that right? And reprocessing. Okay. Yeah. So she got me to follow [01:08:00] her pen- ... with my eyes, and then asked me all this- ... series of questions. And then she would say, "And how does it feel now?" And I'd be like "I don't think it feels as bad." And then so- another little question, I'm like, "I don't think it feels as bad."

And in one session, I stopped crying at night. And like I still- I'm not

Georgie: surprised.

Andrea: Yeah, it was amazing. And I still like I m- missed her, and I- ... felt terribly guilty when I got Sunny. I felt like I was being disloyal to Tilly, but I'd been able to stop crying. And she told me, and you'd correct me if I'm wrong, but when you have a traumatic experience like that, that it can get locked in the part of your brain- Yeah

that's you're living it every day.

Georgie: Yeah.

Andrea: And the eye movement lets you to put it into the past. Yes. Is that right?

Georgie: Yeah. It's fascinating. Yeah. So that's the type of work I do in this space because we need to get the body involved. Yeah. So when we talked about our nervous system and we store things, like we've talked about with your dancing- Yeah

and comments and messages. If they stay in our system, they are really... it really [01:09:00] influences our eating today and our beliefs, and we're not even aware of it. And so what I, I do is I go in and find what's the past events and experiences and feelings that are related to the eating today.

So we go back and find them, and then we use EMDR- Wow ... to process those- Amazing ... so they're no longer in charge. Yeah. So good. EMDR is amazing. Everyone, go see Georgie. Okay, that was not a rapid-fire answer- Okay, we're out here ... but it was a really good answer. Okay, last question. If you could tell every woman one thing about her relationship with food, what would it be?

That it has nothing to do with food.

Andrea: Oh, I love that. And it's got- What a beautiful place to finish ...

Georgie: everything to do with how you feel about yourself, and you can change.

Andrea: I love it. Thank you so much for joining us today.

Georgie: Thanks for having me. It's been amazing

[01:10:00] 

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